Bednar’s Evasive $300 Billion Answer Only Raises More Questions

In February 2025, the LDS Church released a new video featuring an interview with David A. Bednar at the Silicon Slopes Summit on September 28, 2023. The interview was conducted by Ryan Smith, Mormon billionaire, co-founder of Qualtrics, and owner of multiple professional sports teams, including the Utah Jazz (NBA), Utah Hockey Club (NHL), and co-owner of Real Salt Lake (MLS). This was not a spontaneous, hard-hitting media interview but rather a carefully controlled PR opportunity. Bednar was given softball questions about the Church’s vast wealth, ensuring that any scrutiny remained minimal.

The Scripted Narrative

During the interview, Ryan Smith framed the conversation around public concerns regarding the LDS Church’s financial reserves, and Bednar responded with a predictable mix of deflection and justification:

Ryan Smith (Qualtrics/Utah Jazz Owner): You’re getting a lot of heat for people telling you how to spend the money of the church. How do you think about that or how can others really understand the scale of this?

David A. Bednar (LDS Apostle): Let me address two things.

We have four overarching responsibilities. The mission of the church is to help people (1) learn about and live the teachings of Jesus Christ. (2) To share that message with the world, (3) to strengthen and unite families, and (4) to care for the poor and the needy. Now, we do this all over the world. So in terms of scope, that’s the answer.

[To] the people who want to tell us how to spend the money I would just emphasize one undergirding principle. The assets of the church are primarily income consuming; they are not income producing.

20,000 meeting houses and facilities. They’re all paid for when they’re dedicated. All of the utilities are paid for. They’re not passing a plate, or collecting money in local congregations. That’s all done through the tithes that the members of the church pay all over the world. But you’ve got fixed costs in the maintenance, the utilities, all of those things for all of those buildings.

315 temples in operation, announced, in design, being renovated or under construction.

4 major institutions of higher education.

You don’t have to be an accountant to figure out those are some big dollars.

So when people say, well, what do you do with all that money? Well, there’s an episode in the Old Testament about Joseph, who interpreted a dream for the Pharaoh that there were seven years of plenty and seven years of famine. And in the years of plenty, you better prepare for the years of famine.

So people want to speculate about the size of the reserve and all that kind of stuff. A billion dollars assisting poor and needy people all over the world annually. A billion dollars for education. And it’s necessary to maintain the mission of this church which is to bless the lives of individuals and families.

Smith: So, you feel good about where you’re at? You feel like it’s prudent and wise? and …

Bednar: I think it would be imprudent and unwise not to have a reserve.

David A. Bednar, LDS Apostle & Ryan Smith, Qualtrics/Utah Jazz Owner – Interview regarding “heat” church recieves telling them how to spend church funds, Silicon Slopes Summit, September 28, 2023. LDS Church Video “What Does the Church Do With Tithing Money?” February 27, 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvaGNrxEE2M

These answers simply restate some of the large claims the church makes in the humanitarian reports. These are the only types of financial reports the church provides, and they lack any transparency or sources. They only share values to congratulate themselves on the amount of humanitarian work is done in the name of the church. These contributions upon examination, seem to be more related to members of the church serving humanitarian efforts than the church giving financially. Bednar dismisses the concerns about how much money the church has is reserve and ignores the questions.

He doesn’t respond to the fact that people are bothered by the people telling them how to operate the church budget. The church has never cared what others, and especially outsiders, think. That is unless they have any power or authority over the church. For example, when the church was pressured with financial seizure of all assets and suddenly had a revelation from God that polygamy should end, which also conveniently appeased the US Government.

Bednar then rambles about the apparent scale of the church. He boasts figures in how many church buildings the church manages (20,000), how many temples the church has in operation or planning (315), and how many educational entities the church owns (4). Then, in a condescending jest, he claims, “You don’t have to be an accountant to figure out that those are some big dollars.” This is obvious, and it is the reason so many have been upset by the big dollars the church is hoarding. Even normal “non-accountant” people can see the church is not being Christlike and could do a lot of good with that much money. Almost anything would be better than sitting on the hoard for a rainy day.

While Bednar elaborates on the scale of the real estate assets the church manages by counting meetinghouses, temples, and universities, he doesn’t mention the scale of the church reserves with Ensign Peak Advisors, the leak regarding the hundreds of billions of dollars that make up these funds, or the subsequent 5 million dollar fine the church paid for illegally hiding the reserves. He doesn’t mention that this fund leak in 2019 and the SEC fine in February 2023 are most likely what the church is “getting a lot of heat” about.

Bednar deftly sidesteps the real concerns with the church’s familiar double-down retort that the church’s assets don’t generate money. These are “primarily income consuming; they are not income producing.” Among the three categories of assets he has brought up, this may be true, though the university CES system of the church is not likely overly income-consuming. We can’t know any of this, though, since the church is not transparent with its finances and makes no financial disclosures. We are asked to take them at their word alone. What about the plethora of other businesses the church owns and the real income-producing parts of the church? The faithful church members, manipulated to dutifully and consistently pay tithing for their own salvation, and the Ensign Peak Advisors’ reserves, built on excess tithing collected over the past couple decades.

Bednar’s Slight of Hand Reference to Joseph Interpreting Pharoh’s Dreams

Then, the discussion moves to a Joseph-in-Egypt analogy to justify the church’s massive financial reserves. Bednar’s position is that “it would be imprudent and unwise not to have a reserve.” This explanation raises more questions than it answers.

Joseph’s interpretation of Pharaoh’s dream in the Old Testament (Genesis 41) described a cycle of prosperity and famine. Pharaoh dreamed of seven fat cows devoured by seven gaunt ones, and seven full ears of corn consumed by seven withered ones. According to the story, Joseph, guided by divine wisdom, explained that Egypt would experience seven years of abundance followed by seven years of famine. His counsel was to store surplus grain during the good years so Egypt could survive the coming lean years. The key here is that the reserve was meant to be used—it was a proactive measure to sustain the people, not an endless stockpile hoarded for the sake of power or control.

In stark contrast, the LDS Church’s estimated $300 billion reserve (that we know about) has far surpassed any reasonable need for self-preservation. If we were to apply Joseph’s logic, a truly faithful approach would be to set aside enough to sustain operations through potential hardships—perhaps a five- to ten-year cushion of expenses. That would be approximately $60 billion at most. But the church’s hoard is now five times that, continuing to grow at an estimated $7 billion per year, untouched, untaxed, and intentionally hidden from its members. Unlike Egypt’s grain reserve, which was openly stored and distributed when needed, the church’s money is shrouded in secrecy, with leaders repeatedly deceiving both members and government regulators about its true scope.

Furthermore, Pharaoh’s storehouses were used to help the entire nation, feeding not just the ruling class but the general population, including foreigners who sought refuge. In contrast, the church claims to spend around $1 billion annually on humanitarian aid—a paltry fraction of its immense wealth. If Joseph had followed the church’s financial model, Egypt would have stockpiled more and more grain indefinitely while letting its people starve, justifying the hoard as “wise stewardship” while pretending famine relief efforts were more generous than they really were.

Is Bednar saying there is an impending 7-year famine in the land? Based on the size of the reserve, is the famine going to last 35 years? 50 years? Is the end of civilization coming? Would the church’s invested funds even exist in this case? If the church were led by a prophet who has this sort of revelation or knowledge of impending famine, wouldn’t they announce it to the world, like Joseph did with Pharaoh? Help the world prepare for the crisis rather than quietly and secretly stockpile a reserve and then, when disasters hit, simply watch them unfold, and hold tight to the funds. Watch the world in deluge while keeping this rainy day fund untouched.

If the church were truly following the example of Joseph’s dream interpretation, it would use it to care for the poor, build communities, and provide relief when times are hard. Did the church use any funds during any recent recessions, wars, or even the global pandemic? No! Instead, it sits on an ever-growing pile of wealth while pressuring even its poorest members to pay tithing, suggesting they should forgo rent, food, and medical care to ensure they “qualify” for God’s blessings. Joseph’s actions were about preparing for the needs of the public. It’s an example of one nation showing wisdom and leadership in taking care of everyone. The church’s actions are those of a private corporation accumulating power and avoiding financial scrutiny.

All information and decisions about the church funds and spending are kept and made in closed-door meetings by church leaders who are all paid “modestly” by the church, who then turn around and demand tithing from the poorest, most destitute people in the world.

A Misapplied Pharaoh Justification

Bednar’s reference to Joseph’s seven-year famine preparation raises an obvious issue: Seven years of famine does not justify hoarding wealth for over fifty years.

With $289 billion (and growing) in known reserve assets, the Church could operate indefinitely on investment interest alone. Yet, it continues to demand tithing from struggling members, including those in impoverished nations. They preach to the poor that when deciding to pay tithing or feed their children, these destitute members should pay the church first.

The Real Questions That Went Unasked

The only real answer David Bednar gave was that he thinks it would be “imprudent and unwise” not to have such a reserve. This doesn’t even answer the softball question. Smith’s question was a setup, allowing Bednar to control the narrative without addressing real concerns. A genuine interview would have included questions like:

• Why did the Church and Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA), under the direction of senior Church leadership, mislead the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the investing public, and faithful members by lying about the true ownership and value of its publicly held securities?
• Why did the Church create and operate multiple shell companies to conceal its investments?
• Why did Church leaders instruct employees to sign financial disclosure forms they knew were false?
• Why did the Church ultimately settle with the SEC for $5 million, while insisting in its press release that ‘the matter is closed’?
• If this reserve is really about preparing for ‘years of famine,’ why has it never been presented as such? Is this a prophecy of a coming famine from the church? The hoard now approaching $300 billion—is this not far beyond any reasonable estimate of operational necessity?

The SEC Investigation: A Deception Unveiled

The Church was caught red-handed, misleading government regulators and the public. As EPA CEO Roger Clarke admitted, Church leaders were afraid that if members found out how much money the Church really had, they might donate less. The decision to mislead was not a simple accounting oversight but a deliberate act of deception stretching over two decades. So all the senior church leadership lied, repeatedly and with the purpose of defrauding. Ostensibly as instructed by Jesus, although that’s hard to imagine.

Again, these reserves are so big that with a reasonable investment strategy, the funds would sustain church operations at current levels indefinitely. In fact, they could continue to increase this investment indefinitely too. A reserve may be prudent and wise, maybe even a 10-year reserve of annual operating costs. What they have is not wise but obscene.

The Issue of Transparency

Bednar’s dismissive response also ignores the largest question, the elephant in the room: Why does the LDS Church refuse to disclose basic financial information?

Most large religious organizations publish annual reports detailing donations, expenditures, and reserves. The LDS Church, however, stopped publishing financial reports in 1959 and has since operated in secrecy. Questions they refuse to answer include:

• How much does the Church receive annually in tithes and offerings?
• How much does it spend annually, and on what?
• What exactly is included in the humanitarian claims the church makes?
• How large is its financial reserve?
• How much interest does Ensign Peak earn annually?
• What is the total value of the Church’s real estate holdings?

If Bednar’s claims were accurate, transparency would only strengthen trust in the Church. Instead, secrecy can only fuel mistrust and speculation.

“They’re Not Passing the Plate” – But Are They?

Bednar claims that the LDS Church does not engage in collection plate practices like other churches. Yet the Church employs far more aggressive tactics:

• Bishops directly question members about their tithing contributions in both annual tithing settlement interviews as well as temple recommend interviews.
• Tithing is framed as a requirement for entering temples and receiving essential ordinances.
• Even the poorest members are pressured to pay, with promises that ‘blessings’ will come if they sacrifice.

Many Christian churches that do “pass the plate” use 100% of those donations for community aid. In contrast, the LDS Church demands tithing while hoarding wealth and allocating only a fraction of its resources to humanitarian efforts. Since they do not report it transparently, we must assume that the reported humanitarian efforts include manhours donated by members and others as well as community efforts such as Giving Machines, in which the church facilitates charitable donations and does not “match” or even make any financial disbursements of their own.

Latter-day Saints voluntarily dedicate their time, talents, and means to establishing the kingdom of God.

LDS Website, Guide to the Scriptures: Law of Consecration
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/consecrate-law-of-consecration

The church may not physically pass a plate, but they do the same if not more in demanding membership pay a full tithing on their income, and demanding they devote all their time, talents and means to the church in the teaching of consecration. Members serve in local callings, fill assignments at temples, family history centers, and bishop storehouses, and even honorably volunteer to provide disaster relief. The church counts all these hours and totals them as part of their worldwide humanitarian and welfare efforts – equating manhours to dollar amounts.

Why Now? Why This Video?

If the SEC settlement truly closed the matter, why is the Church still releasing PR videos about its finances? The timing suggests an ongoing effort to control the narrative rather than address legitimate concerns.

The Church’s Trust Problem

This issue is bigger than just money—it’s about integrity, accountability, and trust. The LDS Church claims to be an institution of truth, yet it has:

• Lied to the SEC and the public for over 20 years.
• Used shell companies to hide assets.
• Misrepresented financial disclosures.
• Pressured members to give money while amassing untold wealth.

If the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric truly believed in transparency and ethical stewardship, they would not have engaged in these deceptive practices. They would not have hidden their wealth, created shell companies, filed false reports, and committed fraud for more than two decades. Institutions that enrich themselves at the expense of their members do not reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Until the LDS Church provides full financial transparency, its credibility remains in question. And no amount of carefully staged interviews will change that.

These Deceptions Hurt Everyone

For those who are struggling with the realities of the church’s financial secrecy, deception, and the broader pattern of gaslighting and manipulation, know that you are not alone. Many have walked this path before you, grappling with the weight of these revelations and finding clarity beyond the narrative the church presents. Your experiences, your doubts, and your questions are valid.

If you’ve felt unheard, dismissed, or silenced, consider sharing your story at wasmormon.org. By adding our voices to a growing collection of personal experiences, we strip away the power the church has to rewrite history and dictate the meaning of our faith journeys. Truth and transparency thrive when we speak out, and together, we can ensure that the reality of Mormonism—both its light and its shadow—is preserved for those who seek to understand it.

• Whistleblowing On the Mormon 100 Billion “Rainy-Day Fund”
• Whistleblower News Prompts Vacant Responses from LDS Corp
• 60 Minutes Transcript: Whistleblower David Nielsen Speaks Out After Reporting the Mormon Church to IRS in 2019
• Ensign Peak Advisors Withdrawls, Religious Tax-Exemption, And Lack of Charitable Work
• Donated Tithing Funds vs Earnings on Invested Tithing
• Tithing—a Commandment Even for the Destitute
• Tithing vs Feeding Children
• The Mormon-Canadian-BYU Billion Dollar Tithing Funnel
• Mormon Church Ripping off Millions of Dollars from Australia
• Mormon Church Relatively Meager Humanitarian Efforts