Hi, I'm Curtis
I enjoy camping, traveling, and playing my banjo. I was a mormon.
About me
I'm a husband, father, and amateur banjo player. I'm part of a mixed faith family. Although I no longer believe in the church, I still support my family's right to choose their own spiritual path. I love my family. Serving my wife and children has become my source of spiritual rejuvenation.
On my shelf
On the Mormon Spectrum
# Why I left More stories of 'Why I left' the Mormon church
I loved the church that was presented to me as a youth. I can remember the exact moment I obtained a testimony of the faith I was taught during childhood. The messaging was simple, and it made sense to me. As an adult, I came to realize that the church presented to me as a youth didn't match the picture of mormonism today. Between shifting doctrines, unethical behavior by the General Leadership, and hidden history of the church I came to realize that nothing about the church is what it claimed to be. The religion I'd loved as a youth simply didn't exist, and never had.
Questions about Mormons My Answers to Questions about Mormonism
#Link to this answer of 'Why are you sharing your story?' by curtishartley Why are you sharing your story? See more answers about 'Why are you sharing your story?'
Navigating a faith crisis/transition can feel incredibly lonely for both the believing spouse and the non-believing spouse. As my wife and I navigated through my faith transition, we both felt a strong desire to reach out to those around us for guidance. This was new territory for us, and we weren't sure how to handle it together. Unfortunately we weren’t sure who we could talk to and how they would respond to the our situation. For this reason, reaching outward helped a little, but not until we decided to reach out for each other did our mixed faith dynamic improve.
I do not believe that any healthy marriage/relationship should end because of a difference in religious affiliation. Contrary to what the current president of the Mormon church (Russell Nelson) teaches, counseling with those of different beliefs can strengthen relationships of all types because it fosters empathy among all participants.
I am so grateful that my wife and I were able to work through our differences, and I hope that our story can offer hope to those who may be experiencing a faith crisis/transition too. No one should ever have to feel alone out of fear of nonacceptance.
The Mormon church has been dishonest about many things from its history to ethical behaviors by the general leadership. Families should not be broken because of a global organization's dishonest behavior.
#Link to this answer of 'Any suggestions about how to deal with my still-Mormon family?' by curtishartley Any suggestions about how to deal with my still-Mormon family? See more answers about 'Any suggestions about how to deal with my still-Mormon family?'
I don't fault my believing family members for the way they treat me and the things they say regarding my faith transition because I behaved the same way as a believing member.
This is simply the result of the general leadership propagating the idea that those who leave are "under Satan's power" (temple endowment ceremony) or "should not be counseled with" (Russell Nelson GC 2023). My wife and I have experienced ups and downs throughout my faith transition. We have chosen to keep love, trust, and choice at the center of our marriage. In other words, we consider our love for one another to be greater than our spiritual differences; we trust in one another's character and the desire to bring about goodness into each other's lives; and we allow each other the freedom to choose our own paths for spiritual rejuvenation. Many active family members may continue to try and "rescue" you. In moments like that I just remind them that non-belief does not equal no-belief, and invite them to ask about my beliefs whenever they are ready to talk.
#Link to this answer of 'Are Mormons Christian?' by curtishartley Are Mormons Christian? See more answers about 'Are Mormons Christian?'
Mormons actively teach and try to emulate their interpretation of Christ's teachings. Mormons teach from the bible, as well as their other standard works such as the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. In recent years the general leadership of the church has placed a greater emphasis on Christ and a lesser influence on the unique aspects or core doctrines of Mormonism. However, like many other churches, Mormonism teaches their "flavor" of Christianity, and claims to have the most accurate interpretation of Christ's teachings. If interested in Jesus, I would recommend studying the teachings of Jesus and drawing your own conclusions rather than trust someone else (either locally or in Salt Lake City) to tell you what they mean.
#Link to this answer of 'Are you happy?' by curtishartley Are you happy? See more answers about 'Are you happy?'
I am incredibly happy. I don't want to sound cliche, or romanticize a faith crisis. However, now that I am on the other side of acceptance, a tremendous weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
As a member, several things are expected of you. Examples include wearing garments (underwear worn by members), holding callings (volunteer positions in the church), tithing (10% of your annual income), participate in hours of meetings outside of regular church worship (to administer in your local congregation), frequent temple visits (because you have to "redeem the dead"). As a believing member, I was in 110%, yet I still felt like I wasn't good enough. Unfortunately I would often bring home the anxiety I felt regarding my self-imposed inadequacies. This was terribly unfair to my family. I recognize that the person I was becoming as an active member wasn't the person I desired to be in the long run.
Many can find happiness in the church. I won't deny that. As a believer, I also found happiness in the church. When I discovered that the church is demonstrably false, though, I couldn't go on living the same way just to keep up the facade.
As described in my bio, I support my family's right to choose their own path of spirituality. This means that I still find myself in a mormon chapel on occasion, but when I attend, I do so on my own terms, and I don't hide the fact that I no longer believe.
#Link to this answer of 'Are you lazy? Is that why you left?' by curtishartley Are you lazy? Is that why you left? See more answers about 'Are you lazy? Is that why you left?'
Christ's gospel as taught by the church contains 5 main elements; faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the holy ghost as a constant companion, and enduring to the end. Considering the average life expectancy in 2024 is ~80 years, the first 4 steps in this gospel plan are accomplished within the first tenth of one's life (assuming they were born into the church and baptized at the age of 8). This means that all there's left to do is "endure to the end". One step..... that's all....
One would probably assume that "endure to the end" simply means to be a good person and emulate the life of Christ as taught in the KJV of the bible and Book of Mormon. It isn't that simple, though.
Enduring to the end involves living the law of consecration ("giving all of your time, talents, and anything with which the lord has blessed you to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the building up of the kingdom of god on the earth" - direct quote from the temple ceremony) including tithing, not questioning your beliefs for any reason, and being completely devoted to the church and the dictates of the general leadership in Salt Lake City.
This is a huge commitment for a young child to make, especially when the church isn't transparent about many things.
I began to question the church's validity as I discovered unethical behavior or a lack of revelation, inspiration, shifting doctrines, and gaslighting by the general leadership of the church. As I began to question, I had my character, intelligence, and motives attacked. How dare I question prophets of god? How dare I trust my own instincts and "give into the natural man." I would ask myself, why do so many believing members pardon the church's poor behavior and accuse me of having the problem? Unfortunately, it is what they're taught about those who leave.
Leaving the church has been one of the hardest things I have ever done. Leaving the church can result in broken relationships, broken communities, and even broken homes. For me, staying in the church, knowing it is false, would have been the easier solution, but it would have led to a tremendous amount of internal compromise and pain.
I recognize that there are many who have to continue in church activity to keep their family together. I cannot fathom how that must feel, and my heart goes out to them. I had an opportunity to step away and keep my family, so I took it. It can still sometimes be hard to maintain peace at home when the church vilifies me, but my family and I are working through it one day at a time.
#Link to this answer of 'Did the gospel topic essays help your faith crisis?' by curtishartley Did the gospel topic essays help your faith crisis? See more answers about 'Did the gospel topic essays help your faith crisis?'
"Help" is an interesting word choice. Like many others, much of what's discussed in the Gospel Topic Essays, Joseph Smith Papers, etc. were once described as "anti-mormon lies" by local and general leaders of the church. Discovering that those "anti-mormon lies" were true was heartbreaking because it meant that the church I'd grown to love had lied to me solely to protect its image.
As painful as it was to discover I'd been lied to, I do still reference the Gospel Topic Essays frequently. They serve as a wonderful resource for citing sources.
I don't seek out opportunities to argue with mormons about their beliefs; but, when challenged, it is nice to back up my stance with sources from the church's own website.
#Link to this answer of 'Can you describe the type of faith you had prior to your loss of faith?' by curtishartley Can you describe the type of faith you had prior to your loss of faith? See more answers about 'Can you describe the type of faith you had prior to your loss of faith?'
As a believing member I was all in. I trusted the words of the leadership (both local and general) and did everything that was asked of me. In just the past 10 years, my wife and I have donated enough money in tithing to effectively double our retirement. I served as a missionary in South America for two years and testified to everyone I met. I prayed daily and read the mormon scriptures several times a week. When faced with a difficult day, I would often retire to the bathroom at work and pray to god that the day would improve. In short, I believed it, I lived it, and I loved it.
Many people, unfortunately, don't see it that way and question my former devotion to the religion. Regardless of my disdain for the mormon church, questioning or attacking my former devotion to my mormon beliefs is incredibly hurtful and insulting.
As time has passed, fewer people have questioned my motives and have shown more empathy for me and my decision to leave. I couldn't be more grateful for those people. For anyone facing backlash from loved ones, know that it does get easier in time. Many members of the church truly want to understand your motives, but have been strongly encouraged to avoid such conversations with you. I used to be true-blue-through-and-through and would avoid those conversations myself. I truly believe that those who want to understand will approach you when they're ready. Give those you love time to develop their own desire to know what you now know.
#Link to this answer of 'What church callings did you serve in?' by curtishartley What church callings did you serve in? See more answers about 'What church callings did you serve in?'
I held a variety of callings in the church.
For those unaware, a "calling" is considered to be a volunteer position in the church for which you are not paid any salary or stipend (unless you are a general authority).
As a youth (age 12-17) I was involved in each class presidency (president of the 12-13 year olds, president of the 14-15 year olds, 1st counselor of the 16-17 year olds). As an 18 year old, I was the youth president of a missionary training camp called "Camp Helaman" or "Sons of Helaman". As a missionary, I was a district leader and trainer. As an adult, I have been involved in presiding over the young men's organization on a local level. I have been involved in the local Sunday School presidency and provided trainings to other teachers on curriculum. I have been a local scout master, and I have been a bishop's secretary twice (sometimes referred to as the executive secretary).
I have always been very involved in each responsibility given to me. I took pride in feeling like my service was building god's kingdom.
I lost my testimony while a member of the Sunday School presidency, and officially resigned from my volunteer position while serving as the bishop's secretary the second time.
After my testimony shattered, all I could think about was how much time and energy I had given to the church for all those years; time that I could have devoted to my family instead. Since that day, I have chosen to give my family all of my time and make them the focus of my spiritual rejuvenation and service.
#Link to this answer of 'What advice would you give folks who are transitioning?' by curtishartley What advice would you give folks who are transitioning? See more answers about 'What advice would you give folks who are transitioning?'
Love yourself and don't be ashamed of your loss of faith.
You don't owe anything to anyone. This means that you don't owe anyone an explanation, apology, or justification for your choices.
Hold true to what YOU believe is right and don't take mind to those who belittle you in the name of their god.
Take it slow, and don't deep dive into everything all at once. You don't need to learn everything about the church and its dishonesty in one night. That isn't healthy. Instead, write your questions down and do your research one question at a time.
Don't seek to pull people away from the church. It is possible to be respectful of peoples beliefs without sharing those beliefs yourself. For example, think of how you viewed other faiths as a true believing mormon. Likely you weren't tearing down your catholic or evangelical friends for their beliefs. Don't tear down mormons either. It will not yield positive results and will only damage relationships that need not be casualties.
Continue to seek after truth and know that you are loved by so many who have already walked the path out.
#Link to this answer of 'Is Mormon doctrine racist?' by curtishartley Is Mormon doctrine racist? See more answers about 'Is Mormon doctrine racist?'
This is a complicated question with many layers. The short answer is, not anymore-ish.
Until 1978, black members of African descent were unable to participate in temple worship. This ban was the result of Mormon prophets teaching that those of African descent were the descendants of Cain, Ham, Lamen and Lemuel (the baddies in the Book of Mormon), and those who disavowed the faith prior to the restoration of Christ's church through Joseph Smith. The descendants were cursed with black skin because of the sins of their ancestors.
Although this ban is often referred to as the "Priesthood Ban" for black men of African descent, it also applied to Mormon temple worship for both men and women.
For those unfamiliar with Mormon temple worship, the temple is where Mormons go to participate in the highest of Mormon rituals. Inside the temple Mormons make covenants with their god to live various commandments and learn how to return to god's presence after they die. Men, in particular, are also taught how to locate their spouse in the next life so that their family can be reunited as an eternal unit.
Preventing black men and women of African descent from entering the temple meant that they could not partake in these ordinances.
Assuming that the Mormon church is the "one true church," this meant that until 1978 these people could not learn how to return to god's presence in the next life, and the men could not learn how to find their spouses to become an eternally reunited family. This would result in broken families for black members only, and a heaven wherein a single racial demographic would be excluded.
The church does not teach this doctrine anymore, but there are still plenty of evidences in church literature and scripture where this doctrine is prevalent.
This doctrine of banning those of African descent from the temple directly contradicts the Mormon church's second Article of Faith, "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression [the fall in the Garden of Eden]." In other words, you're guilty for your own sins and not the sins of others.... unless you're black and of African descent.
The church has since disavowed these previous doctrines. However, this does not undo the pain caused to black people of African descent while the doctrine was actively taught.
#Link to this answer of 'What are your thoughts about leaving the church alone?' by curtishartley What are your thoughts about leaving the church alone? See more answers about 'What are your thoughts about leaving the church alone?'
I don't pick fights. I only stand up for myself when targeted, bullied, or attacked for my non-belief.
Unfortunately the general leadership (and sometimes local members) will take it upon themselves to speak unkindly of those who've left the faith. Comments can range from name calling, or marginalizing former members by minimizing their experience and reasons for leaving.
As a former member who was incredibly devout, I find it insulting and hurtful when I'm belittled simply because I no longer believe.
I try hard to be respectful to all members of the church, but sometimes that kindness isn't reciprocated. In moments like those, I speak out.
#Link to this answer of 'What if anything would bring you back to the church?' by curtishartley What if anything would bring you back to the church? See more answers about 'What if anything would bring you back to the church?'
There are many teachings in the Mormon church that demonstrate several methods through which the god of Mormonism could answer all of my questions and resolve all of my concerns. In other words, according to church doctrine, the god of Mormonism has the ability, capacity, and resources available to address my doubt head on, yet willingly withholds information from me that would bring me back into the fold.
One can speculate that the god of Mormonism is testing my faith. Perhaps this is true, but the cards are still stacked against me.
Any god who condemns me for the unfair situation resulting from his confusing arena is not a god worth worshiping.
Some of my questions are:
- Considering all the questions regarding the historicity and anachronisms of the Book of Mormon, why doesn't the Mormon prophet just ask the three Nephites who were promised by Christ that they would remain alive on the earth until his second coming? If the church is losing members due to historical concerns, why isn't God allowing our questions to be answered when we have at least three people who were alive at the time of the Book of Mormon.
- Why did the church need to be restored if it was never truly lost? Why didn't the three Nephites and John the Beloved bring it out of obscurity? What is their purpose for living forever if they aren't furthering "God's Work" besides changing a tire for someone or showing up in a random sacrament meeting where only one person saw them (as many members will often testify)?
- Why can God take time out of his day to bless my greasy pizza or help my neighbor find her car keys, but refuses to take time out of his day to answer questions that keep me from believing? Members are promised further light and knowledge in exchange for increased faith. Was my three decades of complete devotion not enough?
- Why, when I have a question, am I encouraged to just "focus on what I already know?" That doesn't answer my question and encourages me to ignore it.
This isn't an exhaustive list of my questions, but answers to these questions would make all the difference for me and people like me. So if Mormonism is the one true path, why won't the god of Mormonism answer them for me?
#Link to this answer of 'Is there only one way to be an ex-Mormon?' by curtishartley Is there only one way to be an ex-Mormon? See more answers about 'Is there only one way to be an ex-Mormon?'
No, there is not only one way to be an ex-Mormon.
For many of us who lost their belief in Mormonism, this loss is comparable to the loss of a loved one. As someone who was born into the religion, church participation was always a central part of my upbringing. My parents would take us to church every Sunday, and wake us up before school every day for scripture study. Each night we would have family prayer, and participate in several church-sponsored activities throughout the week (mid-week youth activities and daily seminary).
For believing members, the church serves as a refuge from the evils of the world and is almost like an extra member of the family.
As the cracks start to form, and the testimony breaks, it can feel as though someone close to you has died. This brings a lot of grief.
The 5 stages of grief are denial, anger bargaining, depression and acceptance. These stages aren't always sequential, and it is possible to move back and forth between stages.
As my testimony shattered, I exhibited emotions of over-zealous behaviors and church activity in an effort to deny what I had discovered about the church and put the pieces of my testimony back together. I grew angry at the church for the dishonest history I had been spoon fed and the general unethical behavior by the general leadership of the church. I bargained with the Lord and pleaded for forgiveness because of my "blindness" and begged for the church to be true. I became incredibly depressed because I felt like I had lost my safety net and spiritual assurance that everything would be ok after I died. Likewise, I feared for the loss of my family. What would they think if they knew I no longer believed. I eventually reached a period of acceptance wherein I am happy and comfortable not knowing what comes next and have learned to more deeply appreciate what I have now (my family, etc.).
I still travel back and forth between these stages. For this reason, I may still be angry at times, I may be content at times, I may be inquisitive at times, and I may be apathetic at times. My emotions are valid and matter.
It can be hurtful when those who leave the religion are labeled as prideful, sinful, or lacking in faith. The best advice I can give to those deconstructing is to prove the unkind members wrong and not become the stereotype that they believe you to be.
#Link to this answer of 'What broke your shelf?' by curtishartley What broke your shelf? See more answers about 'What broke your shelf?'
The SEC charges filed against the church in February of 2023.
For those unaware, the church collects tithing and other forms of charitable donations throughout the year to accommodate operating expenses and humanitarian aid throughout the world. According to the SEC filing, surplus tithes and offerings had been collected between the years of 1997 and 2019. These surplus tithes, when received, were invested through the investment entity of the church, Ensign Peak Advisors. Ensign Peak Advisors is owned by the church. The oversight of Ensign Peak Advisors and all financial decisions made occurred under the direction of the First Presidency of the Church and the Presiding Bishopric.
The following men held positions in the First Presidency or Presiding Bishopric during that time:
- Gordon B. Hinckley (Late Prophet)
- Thomas S. Monson (Late Apostle and Late Prophet)
- James E. Faust (Late Apostle)
- Henry B. Eyering (Current Apostle)
- Deiter F. Uchtdorf (Current Apostle)
- Russell M. Nelson (Current Apostle and Current Prophet)
- Dallin H. Oaks (Current Apostle and next in line to be Prophet)
- H. David Burton
- Richard C. Edgley
- Keith B. McMullin
- Gary E. Stevenson (Current Apostle)
- Gerald Jean Causse
- Dean Myron Davies
- W. Christopher Waddell
- L. Todd Budge
For clarification, I do not fault the church for being wealthy. The church is an international entity with resources and assets located around the world. It would be foolish to assume the church wasn't wealthy.
Rather, I find fault with the fact that in order to mislead faithful tithe payers, the church created 13 different shell companies to obfuscate the amount of their holdings and either failed to file federal forms or blatantly lied on federal forms.
The SEC asserts that as early as 1998, the church was properly informed and aware of the federal requirements to legally operate within the Security and Exchange Act of 1934. In other words, the church was clearly aware of the law that preceded the formation of Ensign Peak Advisors by ~63 years, and intentionally chose to break the law.
According to Roger Clarke, the head of Ensign Peak Advisors, "[tithing] is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money. So [the church] never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn't make a contribution."
Following the investigation, and subsequent fine of $4 million to Ensign Peak Advisors and $1 million to the church, the following statement was made by the church's public relations department, "Since 2000, Ensign Peak received and relied upon legal counsel regarding how to comply with its reporting obligations while attempting to maintain the privacy of the portfolio.... We affirm our commitment to comply with the law, regret mistakes made, and now consider this matter closed."
So why does all of this matter?
To begin with, as a Mormon, I was taught that sin is knowing what's right, but doing the wrong thing anyways. The church knew what they were doing was wrong, but did it anyways, so why should they be pardoned for their sin? A sin, for which, they never apologized. Furthermore, the Mormon church claims to have the one and only prophet of God on the earth who speaks directly with Christ and is directed in all things by the almighty. By this logic, either God doesn't speak to these men, and they aren't prophets, or Mormon god instructed these men to proactively break the law for ~22 years and lie about it.
I do not believe that lying in the name of god is ever ok. No one is above the law, and anyone who claims divine authority to break the law is a danger and not to be trusted in things temporal or spiritual.
#Link to this answer of 'What do you feel or know about the doctrinal changes in the church over time?' by curtishartley What do you feel or know about the doctrinal changes in the church over time? See more answers about 'What do you feel or know about the doctrinal changes in the church over time?'
Doctrinal changes were always a shelf item for me, but I trusted the leaders of the church implicitly and tried not to question. Whereas members covenant in the temple ceremony to not "speak evil of the Lord's anointed," I believed it wrong to voice my questions. If Mormon god is the "same yesterday, today and forever" (Mormon 9:9), shouldn't Mormon god's doctrine and rulebook remain the same too?
I am not a scholar on all things Mormon, but throughout my research, I have come across several doctrines that have since been modified or disavowed by the Mormon church. Some of these doctrines include:
- Adam God Doctrine
------> Taught: Delivered by Brigham Young in the Salt Lake Tabernacle to the members of the church on June 8th, 1873
------> Disavowed: Formally disavowed by Spencer W. Kimball (while acting as prophet) in the General Conference talk "Our Own Liahona" of October 1976
- Handicapped and Nationality caused from being less valiant in the pre-Earth life
------> Taught:
Discussed by Harold B. Lee (while acting as prophet) in the book, "Decisions for Successful Living," on pages 164-165. The direct quote is, "This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaighful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under the penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations."
------> Disavowed: Although not formally disavowed, this doctrine is no longer propagated among the membership. Rather, the opposite is taught; people with physical or mental handicaps were more faithful in the pre-Earth life. In other words, gaining a body is essential to Mormon god's plan so this checks the box, but their handicaps protect their innocence from the evils of the world.
- Black skin being a curse
------> Taught: 2 Nephi 5:21 states, "And [God] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." In addition to the Book of Mormon, this doctrine was reinforced in 1960 by apostle and future prophet, Spencer W. Kimball during General Conference. The direct quote is found on page 34 of the transcript. It states, "The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five wer darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation." The quote continues with just as much harmful rhetoric, but for the sake of brevity, I won't continue the quote, but encourage you to obtain your own copy of the original transcript as I have. Late Apostle Bruce R. McKonkie also famously taught that dark skin was given to those who were "less-valiant" in the pre-Earth life.
------> Disavowed: This doctrine was officially disavowed in the mid 2010's when the Church first started publishing the Gospel Topic Essays on their website. The most recent version of the essay discussing race (as of 2024) is titled Race and the Priesthood.
- Blood Atonment
------> Taught: Brigham Young taught this doctrine on September 21, 1856. This doctrine is documented in the Journal of Discourses, and states, "There are sins that men commit for whith they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascent to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world. I know, when you hear my bretheren telling about cutting people off from the earch that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them." The Mormon church has since confirmed that Brigham Young taught this doctrine in the Gospel Topic Essay "Peace and Violence among 19th-Century Latter-day Saints. The essay states, "At times during the reformation, President Young, his counselor Jedediah M. Grant, and other leaders preached with fiery rhetoric, warning against the evils of those who dissented from or opposed the Church. Drawing on biblical passages, particularly from the Old Testament, leaders taught that some sins were so serious that the perpetrator's blood would have to be shed in order to receive forgiveness."
------> Disavowed: In a letter to Thomas B. McAffee on October 18, 1978, Bruce R. McKonkie states that the leaders of the church no longer believes the doctrine of Blood Atonement to be necessary; but clarifies the doctrine by stating "categorically and unequivocally that this doctrine can only operate in a day when there is no separation of Church and State and when the power to take life is vested in the ruling theocracy as was the case in the day of Moses ." This statement is troubling because it doesn't disavow the practice. This statement only claims that it is unnecessary NOW because there is a separation of church and state.
- The ability for exhalted members to get/create their own planet after this life
------> Taught: God's plan of salvation, according to Mormon doctrine is that through one's faithfulness, one can obtain all that God has. According to the Mormon scripture Moses 1:33, God created "worlds without number... and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten." Mormon god continues in verse 35, and 37-39, "But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them... And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; by they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my words, neither to my words. For behold this is my work and my glory -- to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." From these passages we can conclude several key points; Mormon god created worlds without number; many of these worlds were created for Mormon god's own purpose; Mormon god's purpose, work and glory are to bring to pass immortality and eternal life of his children (bring about his plan of salvation); many worlds have already passed away to accomplish this purpose; and that many worlds can coexist at the same time to each assist in accomplishing Mormon god's purpose.
------> Disavowed: The Mormon church released an undated statement regarding several FAQs that are commonly asked about the church around 2018 which can be found here: newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/…. Question 12 directly addresses this doctrine and states, "Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will 'get their own planet'? - No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church." My question is, why does this statement directly contradict what is taught in Mormon scripture, and if Mormon god is the only one who can create planets, why are Mormons promised "all that God hath" as taught in D&C 84:38?
These doctrines are harmful. I want to be clear that I didn't lose my belief in Mormonism because these doctrines were abandoned or held meaning to me. On the contrary, the narratives of these doctrines were not taught this way to me as a young boy in the late 90s to early 2000s. Rather, I lost my belief in Mormonism because I was told that the doctrines NEVER change and that the beauty of Mormon god's plan is consistency.
Changing doctrines suggest that the church shifts priorities according to what is culturally acceptable, and does not remain consistent when a doctrine presents the church negatively.
#Link to this answer of 'In what ways did church leaders or members make your transition more difficult? Were there church leaders or members who were helpful to you? If so, how?' by curtishartley In what ways did church leaders or members make your transition more difficult? Were there church leaders or members who were helpful to you? If so, how? See more answers about 'In what ways did church leaders or members make your transition more difficult? Were there church leaders or members who were helpful to you? If so, how?'
Many former members often refer to working with local leadership as "Bishop Roulette." In other words, no two bishops are the same. Some may be more empathetic and understanding while others may follow more of a hard-lined approach when addressing a faith transition. For this reason, I can only speak to my personal experience with local leadership.
The bishopric (Bishop, two counselors, secretary, and various clerks) of the local congregation has been incredibly wonderful and kind. Each member of the bishopric knows that I no longer believe, but have remained respectful of me. Rather than call me to repentance they have each simply offered to listen to my questions and concerns regarding the church if I ever feel the need to talk. For this reason, I consider each one of these men to be good friends of mine and some of the most Christlike people I have ever met.
As I've already stated in other answers, I often still find myself in a Mormon chapel with my family. Knowing that these men are willing to listen and respect my point of view (even though they may disagree with it) helps me to feel more comfortable while attending church services.
I do not believe in the truth claims of the church, but I am more willing to be present with my family when I know that vilifying me in the name of god will not be tolerated in my neighborhood's local congregation.
#Link to this answer of 'Does the church encourage leader worship?' by curtishartley Does the church encourage leader worship? See more answers about 'Does the church encourage leader worship?'
I would argue that the church doesn't necessarily encourage leader worship, but does foster an environment wherein leader worship is possible and thrives. For example, Mormon prophet worship.
Regarding Mormon prophet worship, consider the Mormon scripture, D&C 1:38, "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." This verse teaches that it does not matter whether God reveals something to you himself or reveals it through one of his servants, it is the same. This is why many members of the church refer to the prophet as "God's Mouthpiece," (Come Follow Me manual 2021, March 15-21). The prophet is the final authority here on the Earth for believing members. The Mormon Apostle N. Eldon Tanner clarified this teaching in August of 1979 by saying, "When the prophet speaks, the debate is over," (Ensign, August of 1979). I believe this to be the reason why many believing members will either pardon the unethical behavior of the Mormon prophet and presiding leadership in Salt Lake, or simply turn a blind eye to it.
Because "god's ways are higher than our ways" (Isaiah 55:8-9) and the prophet speaks for god, the prophet must have a good reason for doing the things he does. To believing members, questioning him would be equivalent to questioning god, and so rather than question most members just demonstrate the same level of respect to the prophet and apostles of the church as they would to Mormon god if he were here. This is why members stand when the prophet or apostles enter the same room as them.
It's not that members believe the prophet and apostles to be divine, but rather that they have been divinely appointed.
#Link to this answer of 'Do Mormons Believe in a Loving God?' by curtishartley Do Mormons Believe in a Loving God? See more answers about 'Do Mormons Believe in a Loving God?'
Yes and no. Mormons teach and testify that Mormon god is a loving heavenly father who wants nothing more than for his children (everyone, everywhere, in every era) to return to his presence. Mormon god has provided a plan to accomplish this objective, which is often referred to as either the "plan of happiness" or "plan of salvation." The core pillar of this plan is the restored gospel of Jesus Christ; which consists of exercising faith in Jesus Christ and in his teachings, repenting and seeking restitution for all wrongdoings that one has committed, being baptized by one holding proper authority and priesthood to perform the ordinance, receiving the gift of the "holy ghost" and listening to its promptings, and enduring to the end which involves consistent faith, repentance, worshiping at church, worshiping in the temple, keeping the commandments, etc.
On paper this doesn't sound all that unreasonable or complex. Watered down, it is a promise that if you follow this divinely appointed program you will return to Mormon god with your family.
However, what is to many a divine path can quickly turn into a nightmare for others. For example, what happens to someone who doesn't do everything outlined in the plan of salvation? In short, they are cast out and unable to live with their family and loved ones in the afterlife.
The Mormon church preaches that families CAN be together forever, not that they WILL be together forever. This is often the justification that believing members adopt when attempting to reactivate those who have left the church. From their perspective they are acting out of love and care for your well-being; but in reality they are acting out of fear due to a divinely given threat that Mormon god will separate families in the afterlife if every box isn't checked.
As a father myself, I would never cast out my own children for one second, let alone all of eternity. I'm a better father than that.
Mormon god is less like a loving heavenly father and more like a mob boss who threatens, "that's sure a nice family you got there.... it would be a shame if anything were to happen to them."
#Link to this answer of 'What is the church's belief in a Mother in Heaven?' by curtishartley What is the church's belief in a Mother in Heaven? See more answers about 'What is the church's belief in a Mother in Heaven?'
Women are promised many things in the next life, such as "becoming a queen and a priestess to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever," (direct quote from the temple endowment ceremony).
However, consider the concept of Mother in Heaven. She is neither discussed, prayed to, worshiped, or given any glory. On the other hand, Father in Heaven is the great creator, discussed every week in church, prayed to daily by members, given all of the glory for HIS plan of salvation.
For any women questioning their eternal role in the church, I would encourage them to look to the role of Mother in Heaven; silently forgotten and left to support her husband as he receives all the recognition.
Members of the Mormon church often justify not discussing Heavenly Mother by claiming that she is simply too sacred to discuss. To that I offer an alternative perspective; I love my mother, so I enjoy talking about her. Avoiding any discussion of my mother and condemning others for asking about her wouldn’t bring her honor or protection. It just hinders the world from knowing how wonderful she is and would demonstrate an incredible amount of arrogance from me.
#Link to this answer of 'How do you now explain the spiritual experiences that you had as an Orthodox Mormon?' by curtishartley How do you now explain the spiritual experiences that you had as an Orthodox Mormon? See more answers about 'How do you now explain the spiritual experiences that you had as an Orthodox Mormon?'
Mormonism creates a direct link between the church, god, the prophet, and spiritual experiences. In other words, for many members it can be difficult to separate these four things. For example, listening to the prophet is equivalent to listening to God's word as if new scripture is being written; following the edicts of the church is the same as following the gospel of Jesus Christ because these laws governing the church are provided to the general leadership from Jesus Christ; following the prophet, the church, and God will bring about spiritual experiences, but ceasing to follow one of these may hinder your spiritual experiences.
I've found the following rhetorical questions help believing members to better understand why I can still accept my spiritual experiences without attributing them to the Mormon church:
- Do you believe that your spiritual experiences come from God or the Mormon church?
- Assuming you were never born into Mormonism or found it later in life, do you believe your life would have been void of spiritual experiences?
- How do you explain your spiritual experiences prior to your life in the Mormon church?
- How do you explain the spiritual experiences of those who don't know about Mormonism or choose to abstain from it?
I don't seek to be combative or disprove someone's testimony or system of belief. I simply use these questions to assist believing Mormons to better understand my perspective and why it is still possible for me to cherish my spiritual experiences without attributing them to the church.
I experienced spiritual moments as a believing member. I will not deny that. However, I attribute those spiritual moments to God, not a religious organization.
#Link to this answer of 'What might have prevented your faith crisis?' by curtishartley What might have prevented your faith crisis? See more answers about 'What might have prevented your faith crisis?'
I don't expect the leaders of the church to be perfect. However, any message given by God's "One True Prophet" from God's alleged pulpit in God's alleged temple or conference center MUST be perfect for it to be God's message. Expecting anything less than that from a prophet begs the question, what is the purpose of a prophet if the prophet incorrectly understands and miscommunicates God's message?
I believed I was being told the truth of God's doctrine and his will for me in my life. All I wanted was the truth. Unfortunately I was lied to about many things, and lying destroys trust.
#Link to this answer of 'Has your struggle improved since you left?' by curtishartley Has your struggle improved since you left? See more answers about 'Has your struggle improved since you left?'
Before I can answer this question, I need to define what "struggle" means to me. I would define my struggle as struggling to know if I'm worthy enough or good enough. I would define my struggle as struggling to know what will happen in the next life if a loved one chooses a different path than me. I would define my struggle as struggling to have an answer for every question presented to me from the outside or within myself.
My "struggle" has improved because of what I've been able to accept for myself. I accept myself for who I am and no longer gauge my worthiness against those around me. I accept that I don't know what will happen after I die, and that gives me a greater appreciation for what I have now (such as the time that I have with my family now). I accept that I don't need to understand everything in order move forward in life and love those around me.
I still have moments wherein I desire to know more and self-improve; however, I no longer consider those moments to be moments of "struggle". I consider them to be moments of growth simply for the sake of growth.
#Link to this answer of 'How has your leaving Mormonism affected your family relationships, friendships, job, neighbor relationships, social life, etc.?' by curtishartley How has your leaving Mormonism affected your family relationships, friendships, job, neighbor relationships, social life, etc.? See more answers about 'How has your leaving Mormonism affected your family relationships, friendships, job, neighbor relationships, social life, etc.?'
I am incredibly grateful for the family, friends and neighbors who have continued to accept me regardless of our spiritual and religious differences.
#Link to this answer of 'What do you believe now?' by curtishartley What do you believe now? See more answers about 'What do you believe now?'
Love and empathy.
I don't have to fully understand everything about a person's decisions, belief, or lifestyle to love an accept them.
My expression of godly love, deeper love, etc. shouldn't be conditional on someone sharing the exact same perspective as me.
#Link to this answer of 'Is the Mormon church a cult?' by curtishartley Is the Mormon church a cult? See more answers about 'Is the Mormon church a cult?'
Some of the most defining characteristics of a cult are documented as:
- Absolute authoritarianism of leadership without accountability for their actions (in other words, their actions are always justified)
- Zero tolerance for criticism or questions outside of what is approved to discuss
- Lack of meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget (such as withholding how tithing dollars are spent from the members of the organization)
- Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions (such as believing that all others/supernatural powers are out to destroy you for your beliefs)
- A belief that former followers are always wrong for leaving and there is never a legitimate reason for anyone else to leave
- A belief that the leader is right at all times
- A belief that the leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or giving validation
- Exclusivity to truth (meaning that we alone hold the one and only truth)
- Control over what one wears and how it is worn
- Secret rites or rituals that cannot be disclosed to outsiders without penalty
I am not attempting to define anyone's personal experience or system of belief; nor am I arguing that the Mormon church is a cult. However, the leaders of the Mormon church exercise great authority over the lives of Mormon members.
I am simply of the opinion that the abandonment of personal freedoms or thoughts for the sake of devotion to a group should always be questioned.