A Loving God?

When deconstructing religious beliefs, examining whether the God we’ve been taught to worship and admire is indeed as loving as we think is on the table for many. Christianity teaches that “God is Love,” but examining scriptural narratives reveals inconsistencies in this portrayal, especially concerning God’s actions as a parental figure.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

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16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 4:7-8 & 1 John 4:16

Here are several examples where God’s behavior does not align with the ideals of a loving parent:

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

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7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Genesis 6:17 & 7:21-23, Old Testament, Bible

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-9): In the story of Noah, God chooses to destroy nearly all of humanity due to their wickedness. A loving parent might seek transformative guidance, forgiveness, or rehabilitation over annihilation. This act of indiscriminate destruction, sparing only a few, seems more aligned with wrath than love.
2. Abraham and Isaac (Genesis 22): God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a test of faith. Though Isaac is ultimately spared, a truly loving parent would not subject their child or anyone to such traumatic tests. This act implies that loyalty and obedience are valued above the well-being of one’s own child.
3. The Egyptian Plagues (Exodus 7-12): To compel Pharaoh to release the Israelites, God sends plagues on Egypt, culminating in the death of all firstborns. This inflicts pain and suffering on innocent families. A loving approach might have focused on persuading Pharaoh without punishing his people, especially children, who bear no responsibility.
4. Hell: Many Christian doctrines teach that non-believers or sinners will suffer eternal torment in hell. A loving parent would strive to forgive and rehabilitate rather than condemn their children to endless punishment. The concept of eternal suffering as a consequence for finite sins suggests a punitive rather than a loving nature.
5. Job’s Suffering (Book of Job): God allows Satan to test Job’s faith by causing extreme suffering, including the death of his children and the loss of his wealth and health. Rather than protecting Job, God uses him to prove a point, showing disregard for Job’s suffering and well-being.
6. Commanded Genocides (e.g., 1 Samuel 15:3): God orders the destruction of entire populations, including children and animals, such as the Amalekites. This reflects a tribal, vengeful mindset rather than a universally loving and merciful one.
7. The Story of Lot (Genesis 19): God saves Lot from Sodom but later allows Lot’s daughters to bear his children after they believe they are the last humans on Earth. Rather than condemning the act or providing guidance, God remains silent, raising questions about the morality and wisdom he expects of his followers.
8. Limited Compassion for Non-Israelites: Many Old Testament stories reflect an “us vs. them” attitude, where God’s mercy and love are exclusive to the Israelites while others are treated as disposable. A universally loving parent would care for all people equally, not favor one group over others based on heritage.
9. Punishments on Descendants: Exodus 20:5 mentions that God will “visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation.” Punishing children for their ancestors’ sins reflects a collective punishment incompatible with a modern understanding of justice or love.
10. Demand for Complete Devotion (First Commandment): God requires absolute loyalty and punishes those who do not worship him exclusively. A loving parent would want their children to have free will and explore the world openly rather than requiring unquestioning obedience and fear.
11. The Syrophoenician Woman (Matthew 15:21-28, Mark 7:24-30): Jesus initially ignores a Canaanite woman asking him to heal her daughter. When she persists, he responds, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” The woman humbly accepts the analogy and, impressed by her faith, Jesus grants her request. While the story ends with healing, his initial words suggest exclusion based on ethnicity and reinforce a social hierarchy.
12. Adulterous Woman (John 8:1-11): In the story where Jesus famously forgives an adulterous woman, sparing her from being stoned, he also advises her to “sin no more,” a comment that, while kind, reinforces her guilt without questioning the male-dominated society that condemned her.
13. Withering of the Fig Tree (Matthew 21:18-22): Jesus curses a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season, leading to its withering. This could be seen as punitive for a natural occurrence beyond the tree’s control.
14. The Unforgivable Sin (Mark 3:28-29): Jesus warns that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin, which contrasts with the idea of boundless divine forgiveness.
15. Division, Not Peace (Matthew 10:34-37): Jesus states that he has come “not to bring peace, but a sword,” and he implies that his followers may need to prioritize him over family relationships, suggesting division rather than reconciliation.
16. Condemnation of Entire Cities (Matthew 11:20-24): Jesus condemns whole cities for not repenting, promising harsher judgment than Sodom and Gomorrah, even though many inhabitants may not have personally encountered him.
17. The Parable of the Wedding Banquet (Matthew 22:1-14): A king (representing God) orders that a man without proper attire be thrown out, suggesting that even minor transgressions may result in harsh consequences.
18. Hell and Eternal Punishment (Matthew 25:41-46): Jesus repeatedly mentions hellfire for those who do not follow specific moral or religious mandates, suggesting eternal punishment, which some interpret as inconsistent with the concept of infinite compassion.
19. Demons and the Pigs (Mark 5:1-13): Jesus casts demons out of a man and into a herd of pigs, which then drown, an act that might seem unkind toward the animals and potentially those who owned them.
20. Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30): The master (representing God) rebukes and casts out the servant who fails to multiply his talents, presenting God as a harsh and unforgiving taskmaster.
21. Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42): When Martha asks Jesus for help in the kitchen, he subtly reproaches her, implying that her sister Mary’s decision to sit and listen is the better choice. While a seemingly gentle correction, it can come across as disregarding Martha’s labor, especially within the context of traditional gender roles.
22. Woman with the Issue of Blood (Mark 5:25-34): The story tells of a woman who touches Jesus’ garment in hope of healing, which does occur. But the initial context of ritual purity laws meant she was considered “unclean” for her condition, making her touch an act of potential shame. Jesus does acknowledge her faith and heals her, but only after she experiences fear of reprimand.

When we examine these examples critically, the narrative of a universally loving, forgiving, and compassionate God becomes difficult to uphold. Many actions attributed to God seem to prioritize obedience, loyalty, and divine authority over compassion, understanding, and parental care. If we apply modern concepts of love, these stories challenge the assertion that God, as presented in the Bible, is a loving parent by today’s standards.

He’s rather astoundingly racist. In two separate stories, he is approached by a woman of an “inferior race” (a Caananite woman in Matthew 15:22-27, a Greek woman in Mark 7:25-27), who asks him to use his healing powers to help her. In both stories, he calls the woman a “dog”, refusing to heal her unless she begs like one.

For a paragon of nonviolence and asceticism, he also had serious issues respecting other people’s property, destroying someone else’s fig tree because it wouldn’t bear fruit out of season (Matthew 21:18-20, Mark 11:12-14), killing a herd of someone else’s pigs by filling them with “unclean spirits” (Mark 5:13, Luke 8:33), directing his disciples to steal horses and donkeys  (Matthew 21:5-7, Mark 11:1-6, John 12:14), wasting a jar of precious ointment which one of his disciples had just told him could be sold to feed a lot of poor people (Matthew 26:8-11), and leading that famous armed raid on the Temple complex that managed to go unrecorded by absolutely any historian (Mark 11:15, Matthew 21:1-13, Luke 19:36-45, John 2:15).

A few more examples.

Jesus fails to “turn the other cheek” and instead gets violent. Matthew21:12-13

He threatens eternal torture in fire to anyone who doesn’t accept his teaching: Matthew 10:28 Matthew 7:19 Matthew 13:41 and Matthew 13:42 Matthew 13:49 and Matthew 13:50 Matthew 25:46 Mark 16:16 Luke 12:5 John 3:18

He plays favorites: Mark 4:10-12

He teaches Christians to have a persecution complex: Matthew 5:11

He teaches thought crime: Matthew 5:28

He disputes the concept of personal responsibility: Matthew 6:25

He condemns skepticism: Matthew 14:31 and John 20:27

He teaches self-harm in the cause of religious purity: Matthew 18:8

He sends his disciples to steal a man’s donkey: Luke 19:29-34

He was not a peacemaker: Matthew 10:34

He was divisive: Luke 14:26, Luke 12:49 and Luke 14:33

He was a liar: John 7:8-10

The Gospels portray him as a cruel, sociopathic asshole who gloats over millions being horribly tortured for billions of years at his command (Mk. 9:43-49, Mt. 13:40-42, Mt. 13:49-50, Mt. 18:7-9, Mt. 24:51, Mt. 25:40-46, Mt. 5:22, Lk. 13:23-34, Jn. 15:6, etc.) and to whom he shall never ever show even the minutest mercy (Lk. 16:22-29); who calls racial minorities dogs (Mk. 7:24-29); who murders thousands of pigs (Mk. 5:12-13), and doesn’t even say he’s sorry to the town that in result just lost its livelihood and the better part of their food supply; a guy who is so horrifically disgusted by sex he tells people to cut off their own limbs, eyes, and genitals before even so much as thinking a sexual thought (Mt. 5:27-30, Mt. 18:7-9, Mk. 9:43-49, Mt. 19:10-12); who endorses the legal execution of anyone who divorces and remarries (Mt. 5:31-32, Mt. 19:3-10), even of children who talk back to their parents (Mk. 7:7-13), and, let’s be honest (Mt. 5:17-20), even gay men and raped women (and countless others; Jesus loved killing, and was in fact convicted of the very death penalty offense he himself supported—an irony lost on pretty much every Christian then or since); who not only never condemns slavery but actually endorses it as a moral model God should be admired for following (e.g. Mt. 18:23-35, Mt. 24:44-51, Mt. 25:14-30, Lk. 17:7-9, Lk. 12:36-48); who has scary paranoid rage issues even with his closest friends (Mt. 16:21-23, Mk. 8:31-33)—even to the point of committing mass public violence (yes, Jesus is literally a criminal; and not because he was falsely convicted, but because he actually committed felony assault: Jn. 2:13-16, Mk. 11:15–16, Mt. 21:12, Lk. 19:45); and who arrogantly commands you to abandon and hate your family in order to follow him instead (Lk. 14:26, Mt. 10:34-37, Mt. 8:21-22, Lk. 9:59-60)—literally boasting that he shall tear families apart (Lk. 12:51-53, Mk. 10:29-30, Mt. 19:29). He never unites or reconciles any family. Not a single intact family ever follows or befriends him. He even tells his own family to fuck off (Mk. 3:32-35). And despite being able to eradicate all disease, he eradicates not even one of them—despite visiting a planet where more than half of all children die of one.

Edit: as a side note, this doesn’t even include the rejected gospels which include him killing a kid with magic for being clumsy

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gcpva7/comment/ltvx0zv/

Book of Mormon

Beyond the Old and New Testaments, we can look to the Book of Mormon. There are many instances where God seems at odds with a God of love.

1. Mass Destruction of Peoples: Throughout the text, entire civilizations are destroyed as a result of divine wrath, such as the annihilation of the Jaredites (Ether 15) and the Nephites (Mormon 4-6). The sheer scale of this destruction can seem harsh, with little emphasis on mercy or reconciliation.
2. Cursing the Lamanites: In 2 Nephi 5:21, the “curse” placed on the Lamanites is described as a “skin of blackness,” associating physical appearance with a divine punishment. This portrayal raises ethical questions about God’s supposed impartial love and equality.
3. Testing Obedience Through Violence: In Ether 8:19, the book condemns secret combinations and violence, yet earlier narratives often show God instructing or supporting violent acts in battle (e.g., Captain Moroni and Nephi’s slaying of Laban), raising a double standard regarding divine approval of violence.
4. Conditional Favoritism: The Book of Mormon describes God’s favor as contingent upon righteousness, often shown through prosperous Nephites and cursed Lamanites. This conditional love challenges the notion of an unconditionally loving God, as those who stray from righteousness are often depicted as cursed or destroyed.
5. Nephi and Laban: In 1 Nephi 4, Nephi is commanded to kill Laban in order to obtain the brass plates. While Nephi hesitates, he ultimately follows through, seeing it as a divine commandment. The ethical dilemma of killing—even under divine orders—can be troubling, especially considering that Nephi was told to commit murder to fulfill a broader plan.
6. Cursing the Lamanites: In 2 Nephi 5:21, God places a “skin of blackness” on the Lamanites as a curse. This racialized punishment has historically caused ethical concerns about equality and fairness, raising questions about God’s unconditional love if a physical alteration is used as a mark of divine disfavor.
7. Alma and the Suffering of Believers: In Mosiah 23–24, Alma and his people are put into bondage by the Lamanites despite their devotion to God. Although they are eventually delivered, they experience severe suffering, and while this is later framed as a test of faith, it can appear as a harsh way to prove devotion.
8. Helaman’s Warning of Destruction: In 3 Nephi 9, entire cities are destroyed in the lead-up to Christ’s visit to the Americas. Cities like Zarahemla and Moroni are burned, and thousands die as a warning to the Nephites for their wickedness. While this passage aims to illustrate divine justice, it is devastatingly severe and raises concerns about compassion toward those who might still repent.
9. Punishing Children for Their Parents’ Sins: In 2 Nephi 5 and throughout other sections, the descendants of the Lamanites are cursed due to their ancestors’ disobedience. This generational punishment contrasts with the idea of a loving God who judges each person individually.
10. Unyielding Warfare Commands: In Alma 43–44, Captain Moroni wages wars with divine approval, including vows to exterminate enemies if they do not surrender. While common in ancient scripture, the concept of holy warfare is harsh when viewed through a lens of compassion and peace.

These examples question how divine love operates in the Book of Mormon and how it aligns with modern interpretations of a benevolent God.

Doctrine & Covenants

Actions, policies, and teachings in both the Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) and latter-day church history raise questions about the alignment of God and love:

1. Polygamy: Section 132 of the D&C commands polygamy as part of God’s law. It has caused significant harm to families and individuals, especially to women and children involved in these relationships, raising ethical concerns about consent and equality.
2. The Priesthood Ban on Black Members: From 1852 until 1978, Black members were denied the priesthood and temple blessings. This ban was rationalized in ways that stigmatized Black individuals and was eventually lifted, yet the church has not fully repudiated the teachings that justified it.
3. Church Silence on Domestic Abuse: Historically, the Church often encouraged women to stay in abusive marriages for the sake of family unity, which has caused significant suffering for many members.
4. Mountain Meadows Massacre (1857): Although not directly commanded in scripture, the massacre involved LDS leaders and resulted in the deaths of approximately 120 emigrants in Utah. The Church’s leaders at the time attempted to justify or obscure the event, and it continues to be a troubling aspect of church history.
5. Adam-God Doctrine: Brigham Young taught that Adam was God and the father of Jesus. This teaching was later disavowed, causing confusion and raising questions about the consistency of divine revelation.
6. Blood Atonement Doctrine: Brigham Young also preached that certain sins required the shedding of one’s own blood for forgiveness, a concept that contradicts the idea of Christ’s atonement as sufficient for all sins.
7. Destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor: In 1844, Joseph Smith ordered the destruction of this printing press, which was critical of him, particularly regarding polygamy. This action escalated tensions, leading to Smith’s death, and raises concerns about freedom of speech and authoritarianism.
8. Polyandry: Joseph Smith married women who were already married to other men. This practice challenges norms around marriage and consent and has troubled many who feel it undermines the sanctity of marital commitments.
9. Zion’s Camp: Joseph Smith led members in a paramilitary march to reclaim lost lands, resulting in hardship and suffering for participants, despite no tangible outcome. This event raises questions about divine foresight and Smith’s judgment.
10. Oath of Vengeance in Temple Ceremonies: For many years, temple ceremonies included an oath to seek vengeance for Joseph Smith’s death. While removed in 1927, its inclusion in sacred rites has raised concerns about a culture of enmity rather than forgiveness.
11. Revelation on Tithing (D&C 119): Tithing is presented as a binding commandment, which, over time, has led to financial strain on members who may be struggling, given that donations are mandated regardless of members’ financial situations.
12. Doctrine of Eternal Gender Roles: Church teachings on eternal gender roles suggest that men and women have separate, divinely appointed roles that are rigid and hierarchical, raising ethical concerns about gender equality and personal agency.
13. Handling of LGBTQ+ Issues: In recent history, policies regarding LGBTQ+ members, including the 2015 exclusion policy for children of LGBTQ+ parents (later rescinded), have been a source of profound pain for many members and their families, raising questions about the Church’s approach to inclusivity and compassion.
14. LDS Involvement in Utah Policing Practices Against Indigenous People: Early settlers were involved in practices that included expelling and, at times, engaging violently with local Indigenous populations, affecting their land and lives.
15. Danite Militia and Violence in Missouri: A militant group within the Church, the Danites, took action against dissenters and rivals, including threats and expulsion, a stance that conflicts with the values of tolerance and peace.
16. Excommunication of Dissenters: Throughout history, those who spoke openly against church policies or leaders, even on legitimate grounds, often faced excommunication, a measure that raises concerns about freedom of thought.
17. Utah War and Resistance Against U.S. Government: During the 1850s, Brigham Young’s resistance to federal control escalated to the Utah War, straining church-member relations and raising ethical questions about civil obedience.
18. Oath of Secrecy in Temple Endowment (Pre-1990): Older versions of the endowment ceremony included symbolic penalties for disclosing sacred practices, a practice some saw as coercive.
19. Secrecy Around Church Finances: For decades, the Church has refused to disclose its finances, which has led to mistrust, especially given its substantial wealth and limited support for impoverished members.
20. Child Interviews on Chastity: Bishops historically interviewed young members alone, asking sensitive questions about chastity, which many feel is inappropriate and traumatic for children.
21. The Handcart Disaster: The Church encouraged and inadequately prepared poor members from Europe to travel to Utah with handcarts, leading to the deaths of hundreds.
22. Gender Inequality in Leadership Roles: Women remain excluded from the priesthood and central leadership roles, limiting their authority in decision-making and affecting Church policies.
23. Teachings on Race and the Lamanites: The Book of Mormon describes darker skin as a curse on the Lamanites. Some Church leaders historically applied these teachings to justify racial policies, which is still a matter of controversy.
24. Use of Fear in Early Missionary Work: The early missionary approach often involved fearful narratives about the Second Coming or damnation, a tactic viewed as coercive rather than uplifting.
25. Policy Changes Without Apology: The Church has changed multiple stances over time (like polygamy and racial exclusion) but has often refrained from issuing direct apologies, which some members feel limits accountability.
26. Counsel Against Higher Education for Women: Historically, Church leaders advised women to prioritize family over education, limiting their opportunities and discouraging intellectual growth.
27. Polynesian Cultural Center Profits: The Church has profited from the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii, where many students work for minimal pay, which some feel exploits their labor for institutional gain.
28. Sacrifice of Integrity for Appearance: The Church has historically focused on maintaining a “perfect” public image, often minimizing or hiding uncomfortable truths, which can feel manipulative and dishonest.

LDS history and practices are filled with incidents driving us to question whether a loving God would promote, tolerate, or endorse such practices. These highlight an ongoing pattern of prioritizing institutional control, power, or public perception over love, compassion, transparency, and true pastoral care for members. These examples reveal complex and, at times, controversial aspects of LDS doctrine and history. They illustrate moments where actions or teachings conflict with the ideal of a universally loving and compassionate God.

Worshipping a God who acts in ways that are unloving or authoritarian carries serious risks for one’s moral and emotional framework.

1. Normalization of Harmful Behavior: If divine actions like violence, exclusion, or punishment are justified as “love,” worshippers may begin to view similar behavior as acceptable or even righteous in human relationships.
2. Stunted Moral Growth: Relying on obedience rather than critical thinking can limit personal moral development. Accepting morally questionable acts without challenge may inhibit compassion and ethical discernment.
3. Cognitive Dissonance: Justifying contradictions between teachings of love and actions of cruelty can create emotional and mental stress, as followers try to reconcile conflicting ideas.
4. Loss of Personal Responsibility: Worshippers may relinquish personal accountability, believing actions are justified simply because they align with God’s will, rather than evaluating them against their own moral intuition.
5. Dependency on Authority: Encouraging unquestioned obedience to a divine authority may lead to dependency on human authorities as well, reducing personal autonomy and susceptibility to manipulation.

By examining these dangers, one can more carefully evaluate religious teachings, fostering a faith or philosophy grounded in compassion, growth, and personal integrity.

God is Love, or Love as God

Personally, God is Love. This personifies the principle of Love as God; it’s not about equating a divine being with the quality of love. I worship god, only inasmuch as I worship Love. It is a guiding principle, and rather than following a spiritual being that is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, why don’t we just worship and practice Love? Love itself, as a principle, rather than the God we say is Love in word, but have consistent evidence that He is not.

God, as Love, is not just a being who embodies the quality of love, but Love itself in its purest form. The principle of Love transcends the limitations of an omnipotent, omniscient deity. Rather than following a spiritual being who claims to be the source of love, let us instead center our lives around Love as the guiding force. Love is not just an attribute but the foundation of truth, justice, and compassion.

Let Love be our guiding principle, not an ancient image of a personified God. Instead of revering a distant, omnipotent being who claims to embody love, let us honor Love itself. Let it be the force that shapes our actions, guides our relationships, and defines our purpose. Love, in its purest form, transcends all limitations. It unites us, heals us, and moves us forward. Let us worship Love and allow it to lead us toward a more compassionate, just, and harmonious world.

• LOVE: John Lennon vs Russell M Nelson
• Examine What You Know – Dismiss What Insults Your Soul
• Experiencing Groundlessness in a Faith Transition
• Be Open to the Magic of Awareness and the Wisdom of Insecurity
• Dumbo’s Feather
• https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/1-jn/4
• https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-gospel-doctrine-teachers-manual/lesson-44-god-is-love