Hello, I'm Bobf!

This is a question that disturbs members,and raises conflicts.
Before starting any dislogue we must clarify terminology.
Double think is very common with both sides on this discussion.
Define our terms is the wisest and best step forward for clarification...

I consider the faith of the LDS.people to be of very high demand activity.
Without pressure,constant exertion,and effort the potential outcome towards worthiness,and ultimately for a completed ,united family in celestial glory,there really is nothing to be compared with it,ie. on a second rate level.
Being lazy, inactive,a 'jack or jill" type member just really isn't honest to be what it was designed for ,in many people s thinking.
(However,if one has become a 'closet -type doubter',and yet have significant family ties on the inside,it becomes then acceptable, and common to remain inactive in that lesser category.)
When I visited the above convert Elaine described above,some years later, I asked her,"what was it really Elaine that made you join"?
I received a commonplace answer I'd heard likewise of others,"they made me feel important ,and gave me a job to do".
Further,by this point,she being then in her early 50s, had become the matriarch in her ward... yet still not fully temple -active married,as she never remarried after her divorce from her non -mormon husband.
On this matter,I also asked,"how will you then manage without a man (priesthood holder)to help you through to the other side?"She seemed still okay with that saying,"oh that will be taken care of".
So in my opinion, it appears reality and honestly to say that this religion is a sanctified type of 'rat race',put in casual jargon,that there follows an ever increasing effort on the part of all members from 17 year singles to becoming mission-minded ,temple-married,on into rearing as many children as able,that preexistent spirit -children be blessed, by being born into more suitable and worthy LDS. families ...so therefore by obvious conclusive statistics a great emotional stress is placed on all members,and particularily on women that increases with each child,and more if she has any outside work ,or Relief Society positions included in her schedule.
Doctrinally,the universe always was,as an eternal Councils of the Gods helped to reorganize cosmological matter totally, and bring about our planetary system,and parents in a garden ...where Adam our first parent,actually did not actually fall downwards,rather he had to disobey Eloihim s command to not eat of the tree of good and evil,so that he might have privileges to reproduce with 'joy' in relations ,to procreate suitable physical bodies ,for the potential ongoing probationary worthiness/exaltation cycle, towards glorification after death.
(However,nothing in Mormon doctrine speaks to laws of scientific entropy,or the universe actually 'winding down',as in the Penumbra effect where infinite regression is not essentially possible.)
Children are born free of a sin nature,or an hereditary depravity as protestants consider in the book of Genesis3 ,and Romans5 etc.until an age of accountability.
Personal sins ,plural, are to be noted,and guarded upon,with a limited forgiveness sought ,as per President Spencer W.Kimball ,and that inherent sinfulness is but a dysfunctional holdover from apostacized chrisendom,and unbiblical doctrines so declared after president Brigham Young.
In short,the struggle is great in what I personally term as a mission-impossible salvation.
Whereas,in biblical theistic christianity we see a finalized abolition of all the laws and ordinances against us,as in Paul s book of Colossians 2;14,and in Jesus final cry from His cross,in John19:30,"it is finished",supplemented by Peter and Paul in other correctly translated passages of IPeter2:24/Ephesians1:7.
Other Book of Mormon selections likewise reveal the finality of judgement following this life,leading to but two destinations.
Alma34:33 cp.with Hebrews9:27
Mosiah27:28 cp.with John 3:3.
No visible,heirarchical New Testament priesthood was present in a preapostacy first century,rather one that became one on an equal sexual footing in 1Peter2:9 etc,and with the Melchisedek priesthood reserved,without vacancy,untransferable (in the Greek New Testament) at Hebrews7:24.
The above comparisons,outline reflect the hard versus the much easier pathways of the two religions surveyed,which some as wasmormon people feel most relieved to be a part of and enjoy.
Matthew10:28/11:28-30

The following quote inside an official church publication still passively offends me,even if it was written 4 years before I was born....like how you may ask?
It comes out here in the
Sunday School Manual,1945 which states ," that when the Prophet speaks,the thinking has been done".But one may protest,we still have our free agency.
Really,in sustaining authorities in general conference,do you have significant opportunity to stand to your feet there, and offer reasons for NOT SUSTAINING HIM?
As for example,could you argue freely as one wasmormon ward authority on this site ,who was so thoroughly upset as with his own daughters being asked humiliating questions in their young teen years for their temple worthiness applications, that he finally after numerous failed attempts ,using all of his free agency, found himself finally outside the fold.
I applaude him greatly for such a persistent stand.
This covers a massive wide area of polity and practice,that free agency ought to be accepted as standard policy, should it not?
How can any member make THEIR CASE for a troubling or difficult matter,or question of theirs,as for example,about a longstanding mysterious or cloudy area in church history to a bishop?

CAN women in many combined ward chapels object to their future lifestyles upcoming,in what D&C.132 still defines and implies for them in their eternal future happiness?Could they lobby for a revision of that July12,1843 revelation?What are the odds for a future change to a sensible monogamy of today?
I'm sure members can detail far more along these lines than I.
One final example,I live in a terribly poor third world country,with over 25%unemployment,and wonder if such very poor disabled as I see and treat in my clinic,should still be forced to comply with a mandatory 10%tithe,and at least not see some of that not used to help buy them beans,and tortillas down here,for some that often have but one meal a day?

D.Michael Quinn wrote decades ago now,Mormonism Magic,and the New World View...he was excommunicated,but am not sure if that was only for his book or not.In 1945,Fawn Brodie,a niece of president David O.MacKay ,historian was removed from membership rolls ,for her one seminal book on the the detailed life of Joseph Smith,NoMan KnowsMyHistory,Alfred Knoff Publishers.
Both books detail and document the claimed activities of the Prophet using diviningrods,using at least two colored types of seer stones,and practicing magic.Joseph was a very charismatic person,(and inspite of having zero luck at retrieving buried treasures,such as that of Captain Kidd s silver mine, along the same Pennsylvania river where he also claimed to have been visited by John the Baptist),he was able to still form loyal partnerships with fellow diggers, who, inspite of never,ever finding buried treasures, these stayed with him several years throughout his 20s.
In 1826,Joseph was convicted by a judge Neely for peepseeking, and disorderly conduct,AFTER AND DURING THE 3 YEARS, in which he was conjointly having visitations with angels, as to where to find the buried ancient records of past American civilizations.
Even more interesting is the fact of a total of 6 years earlier than this trial in Bainbridge,NewYork,he MAINTAINED THAT HE HAD the foundational FIRST vision of the church ,where he said he actually saw God the Father, however which account varies among several others,and was YET not written down, and desctibed for yet 18 years after that event.
Would you not think that Joseph might not have told a few neighbors of the magnificance of seeing the ALMIGHTY IN 1830 ,WHEN IT WAS NOT EVEN DESCRIBED UNTIL 1838 IN MISSOURI,NOT EVEN IN NEW YORK STATE?
Before this described pivotal account, there were others stating rather, that ONLY JESUS appeared WHO ONLY FORGAVE HIS SINS,and DID NOT MENTION LOCAL CHURCHES,then to others of ONLY JUST ANGELS ,APART FROM JESUS appeared.
So to question reality here,I ask,"if for example you had witnessed a car accident on a wednesday afternoon ,at 3.05 pm.between a red, and a green car,and one person got a broken arm,but then,after reflecting more seriously, you declared in sworn testimony,that rather now you felt the accident was instead at 5.45pm.on a friday between a black,and yellow car,and the person really had a broken leg,and not arm ,then tell me,how well would you fare before the judge and jurors there?
Indeed,these digging activities with his father,and a couple of scribes to the Book of Mormon produced fully negative successes for over 5 years digging in two states,MOST WHO PAID HIM TO DIG at his specified locations,might we not really question,how well then could his success rate improve to locate sacred golden plates at almost identical time periods claimed?
We then have Kinderhook plates purchased at Kirtland Ohio,and a couple Egyptian mummies that formed the basis for his Book of Abraham.
In living down here in Latin America,I personally visited the city of Zarahemla did you know? Joseph himself affirmed in his Times and Seasons newspaper dated October1st,1842,Vol.Iii.No.23 at the City of Nauvoo,quoting him on the front page affirming that the odds of a recently discovered Mayan civilization ruins by one Stephens,at the place called Quirgua in Guatamala presently,"the city of Zarahemla STOOD UPON THIS LAND AS WILL BE SEEN FROM THE FOLLOWING WORDS IN THE BOOK OF ALMA,3rd edition,page 280-281...we are of the opinion,that IT WOULD REQUIRE MORE PROOF THAN THE JEWS COULD BRING TO PROVE THAT THE DISCIPLES STOLE THE BODY OF JESUS FROM THE TOMB,TO PROVE THAT THE RUINS OF THE CITY IN QUESTION,ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE REFERRED TO IN THE BOOK OF MORMON"
If one of us saw God would we not be rather humble and less hindered with magic ctivities,which included the killing of both a black dog,and a stolen black sheep to appease spirits...I'm sorry to be so detailed here,however the ruinsxdescribed for Zarahemla have produced no metal swords or weapons of war here,and an anthropologist is seen describing this place on site,in December2004,in a film called The Bible vs.The Book of Mormon by sourceflix.com

As a longtime 50years -friend of LDS.folk active,inactive,hostile and somewhere in between,for some reason still I have a special place in my heart for these folk.
Never having been a member,nor any family so connected, I have no 'bones to pick' ,or motives for attacking them as numerous ones have accused me of.
After all these years Ive felt I was almost a part together with them,as I have grown to understand them so well ,from both sides so much....to me they are wonderful people, and those with whom I do agree 100% on certain areas socially as in abortion,pornography,and family life ideals.
I have been affiliated with different groups ,one called Saints Alive in Jesus,composed of ex members and families,and one reason why I favor the Saviour s nail -pierced hand placed so kindly above.
My outreach and work ethic towards the church is to never force anyone to change their status under coercion,but rather be allowed,and feel open in using an undeterred free agency and will,to investigate the church history, and distinct differences in basic doctrines between orthodox first century Christian orthodoxy,(which I feel never universally -apostacized,but rather generally did sustain major doctrinal shifts, heretical diversions, various sites of disaffection from the pristine faith of the apostles.)
I simply beg to differ on doctrinal issues ,have honest open discussion of the significant evolutionary changes therein,and be free to follow how the church has arrived as it is today from 1830.
So,I'm asked often,"so why do pick on Mormons,and no one else"?
My answer is I suppose evident from the classic verse Peter wrote in 1Peter3:15,"always be ready to give an answer to those who ask of you,the hope that lies within you ,with kindness and respect".
I have studied many world religions,sects of restoration Christianity ,and have worked on a masters degree in addiction counseling.
So to answer the question,am I happy?
Yes unreservedly,I d have never regretted my move in this direction of getting to know LDS.people,initiated simply by one very bizarre incident back in 1976.