Yearly Archives: 2023

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"Many things had troubled me about Mormonism over the years. The first one was the central concept of the infinite and eternal atonement. Christ didn’t just suffer for the sins of the inhabitants of the earth, he suffered for everyone everywhere, in every world throughout the galaxy – the atonement was both infinite and eternal. So, people in other worlds like our earth, would have different scriptures describing an extra-terrestrial named Jesus, who would suffer for the sins of the people, but would never live on their own world... There comes a time for every individual when the story becomes, like the proverbial fisherman’s tale - too tall. I had reached my limit." - Lyndon Lamborn | https://wasmormon.org/profile/lyndonlamborn/
"Many things had troubled me about Mormonism over the years. The first one was the central concept of the infinite and eternal atonement. Christ didn’t just suffer for the sins of the inhabitants of the earth, he suffered for everyone everywhere, in every world throughout the galaxy – the atonement was both infinite and eternal. So, people in other worlds like our earth, would have different scriptures describing an extra-terrestrial named Jesus, who would suffer for the sins of the people, but would never live on their own world... There comes a time for every individual when the story becomes, like the proverbial fisherman’s tale - too tall. I had reached my limit." - Lyndon Lamborn | https://wasmormon.org/profile/lyndonlamborn/
"I am a ‘born in the covenant’ fourth generation pioneer heritage Mormon, with polygamists on both sides of the family tree. Many ward members were guessing that I would be the next Bishop when in fact I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable attending church each Sunday. I was finding that Sunday was rapidly becoming the most dishonest day of my week. I was a Mormon." - Lyndon Lamborn | https://wasmormon.org/profile/lyndonlamborn/
"I am a ‘born in the covenant’ fourth generation pioneer heritage Mormon, with polygamists on both sides of the family tree. Many ward members were guessing that I would be the next Bishop when in fact I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable attending church each Sunday. I was finding that Sunday was rapidly becoming the most dishonest day of my week. I was a Mormon." - Lyndon Lamborn | https://wasmormon.org/profile/lyndonlamborn/
As much as any doctrine the church has espoused, or controversy the church has been embroiled in, this one seems to stand out. Church members seemed to have less to go on to get a grasp of the issue. Can you address why this was the case, and what can be learned from it? "If you read the scriptures with this question in mind, 'Why did the Lord command this or why did he command that,' you find that in less than one in a hundred commands was any reason given. It's not the pattern of the Lord to give reasons. We can put reason to revelation. We can put reasons to commandments. When we do we're on our own. Some people put reasons to the one we're talking about here, and they turned out to be spectacularly wrong. There is a lesson in that. The lesson I've drawn from that, I decided a long time ago that I had faith in the command and I had no faith in the reasons that had been suggested for it. I decided that 25 years ago, so it was very easy for me when it was changed." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
As much as any doctrine the church has espoused, or controversy the church has been embroiled in, this one seems to stand out. Church members seemed to have less to go on to get a grasp of the issue. Can you address why this was the case, and what can be learned from it? "If you read the scriptures with this question in mind, 'Why did the Lord command this or why did he command that,' you find that in less than one in a hundred commands was any reason given. It's not the pattern of the Lord to give reasons. We can put reason to revelation. We can put reasons to commandments. When we do we're on our own. Some people put reasons to the one we're talking about here, and they turned out to be spectacularly wrong. There is a lesson in that. The lesson I've drawn from that, I decided a long time ago that I had faith in the command and I had no faith in the reasons that had been suggested for it. I decided that 25 years ago, so it was very easy for me when it was changed." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
Was the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood a matter of policy or doctrine? "Well, I don't know. It certainly was church policy and, obviously, with some considerable commentary from early church leaders about it. It's difficult for me to go beyond that." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5 1988 | wasmormon.org
Was the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood a matter of policy or doctrine? "Well, I don't know. It certainly was church policy and, obviously, with some considerable commentary from early church leaders about it. It's difficult for me to go beyond that." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5 1988
Does a policy such as this, the priesthood prohibition, require a revelation to change, or can it be done through discourse among the brethren? "I think anything as: major and significant as this would have required the spiritual endorsement and sanction that was obviously there." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
Does a policy such as this, the priesthood prohibition, require a revelation to change, or can it be done through discourse among the brethren? "I think anything as: major and significant as this would have required the spiritual endorsement and sanction that was obviously there." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
Did you feel differently about the issue before the revelation was given? "I decided a long time ago, 1961 or 2, that there's no way to talk about it in terms of doctrine, or policy, practice, procedure. All of those words just led you to reaffirm your prejudice, whichever it was. The only fair, just way to think about it is to reaffirm your faith in the prophet, and he says you don't do it now, so you don't do it now. And if he says tomorrow that you do do it, then you do it." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
Did you feel differently about the issue before the revelation was given? "I decided a long time ago, 1961 or 2, that there's no way to talk about it in terms of doctrine, or policy, practice, procedure. All of those words just led you to reaffirm your prejudice, whichever it was. The only fair, just way to think about it is to reaffirm your faith in the prophet, and he says you don't do it now, so you don't do it now. And if he says tomorrow that you do do it, then you do it." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
To follow up, just for the sake of argument, in your deliberations on any issue, is unanimity required for a decision? "The scripture does lay a requirement of unanimity upon us, and I think that is adhered to, not in a nitpicky way, but it is substantial." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
To follow up, just for the sake of argument, in your deliberations on any issue, is unanimity required for a decision? "The scripture does lay a requirement of unanimity upon us, and I think that is adhered to, not in a nitpicky way, but it is substantial." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
It appears that prior to 1978, there was a lack of unanimity among the brethren regarding the origin and efficacy of the policy, We understand 10 of the Council of the Twelve voted in 1969 to lift the ban as an administrative procedure, but the plan was overturned by Harold B. Lee. "That's a new one to me." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
It appears that prior to 1978, there was a lack of unanimity among the brethren regarding the origin and efficacy of the policy, We understand 10 of the Council of the Twelve voted in 1969 to lift the ban as an administrative procedure, but the plan was overturned by Harold B. Lee. "That's a new one to me." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
It appears that prior to 1978, there was a lack of unanimity among the brethren regarding the origin and efficacy of the policy, We understand 10 of the Council of the Twelve voted in 1969 to lift the ban as an administrative procedure, but the plan was overturned by Harold B. Lee. "These are things about which I wouldn't have any knowledge." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
It appears that prior to 1978, there was a lack of unanimity among the brethren regarding the origin and efficacy of the policy, We understand 10 of the Council of the Twelve voted in 1969 to lift the ban as an administrative procedure, but the plan was overturned by Harold B. Lee. "These are things about which I wouldn't have any knowledge." - Elder Neal A Maxwell, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
Are you referring to reasons given even by general authorities? "Sure. I'm referring to reasons given by general authorities and reasons elaborated upon that reason by others. The whole set of reasons seemed to me to be unnecessary risk taking. My experience with this was to say, I don't know whether this is commanded in the Pearl of Great Price. I'm not positive about that commandment in relation to this. I put my faith on the president of the church whom I sustain as the prophet. When he tells me that this is what the church does, then I'll go with that. Let's don't make the mistake that's been made in the past, here and in other areas, trying to put reasons to revelation. The reasons turn out to be man-made to a great extent. The revelations are what we sustain as the will of the Lord and that's where safety lies." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988 | wasmormon.org
Are you referring to reasons given even by general authorities? "Sure. I'm referring to reasons given by general authorities and reasons elaborated upon that reason by others. The whole set of reasons seemed to me to be unnecessary risk taking. My experience with this was to say, I don't know whether this is commanded in the Pearl of Great Price. I'm not positive about that commandment in relation to this. I put my faith on the president of the church whom I sustain as the prophet. When he tells me that this is what the church does, then I'll go with that. Let's don't make the mistake that's been made in the past, here and in other areas, trying to put reasons to revelation. The reasons turn out to be man-made to a great extent. The revelations are what we sustain as the will of the Lord and that's where safety lies." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5, 1988
Was the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood a matter of policy or doctrine? "I don't know that it's possible to distinguish between policy and doctrine in a church that believes in continuing revelation and sustains its leader as a prophet... I'm not sure I could justify the difference in doctrine and policy in the fact that before 1978 a person could not hold the priesthood and after 1978 they could hold the priesthood." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5 1988 | wasmormon.org
Was the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood a matter of policy or doctrine? "I don't know that it's possible to distinguish between policy and doctrine in a church that believes in continuing revelation and sustains its leader as a prophet... I'm not sure I could justify the difference in doctrine and policy in the fact that before 1978 a person could not hold the priesthood and after 1978 they could hold the priesthood." - Elder Dallin H Oaks, AP interview. Provo Daily Herald June 5 1988
"We just don't know, in the historical context of the time, why it was practiced. That's my principal [concern], is that we don't perpetuate explanations about things we don't know. We don't pretend that something wasn't taught or practice wasn't pursued for whatever reason. But I think we can be unequivocal and we can be declarative in our current literature, in books that we reproduce, in teachings that go forward, whatever, that from this time forward, from 1978 forward, we can make sure that nothing of that is declared." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006 | wasmormon.org
"We just don't know, in the historical context of the time, why it was practiced. That's my principal [concern], is that we don't perpetuate explanations about things we don't know. We don't pretend that something wasn't taught or practice wasn't pursued for whatever reason. But I think we can be unequivocal and we can be declarative in our current literature, in books that we reproduce, in teachings that go forward, whatever, that from this time forward, from 1978 forward, we can make sure that nothing of that is declared." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006
"Some of the folklore that you must be referring to are suggestions that there were decisions made in the pre-mortal councils where someone had not been as decisive in their loyalty to a Gospel plan or the procedures on earth or what was to unfold in mortality, and that therefore that opportunity and mortality was compromised. I really don't know a lot of the details of those, because fortunately I've been able to live in the period where we're not expressing or teaching them, but I think that's the one I grew up hearing the most, was that it was something to do with the pre-mortal councils." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006 | wasmormon.org
"Some of the folklore that you must be referring to are suggestions that there were decisions made in the pre-mortal councils where someone had not been as decisive in their loyalty to a Gospel plan or the procedures on earth or what was to unfold in mortality, and that therefore that opportunity and mortality was compromised. I really don't know a lot of the details of those, because fortunately I've been able to live in the period where we're not expressing or teaching them, but I think that's the one I grew up hearing the most, was that it was something to do with the pre-mortal councils." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006
"One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006 | wasmormon.org
"One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006
"It probably would have been advantageous to say nothing, to say we just don't know, and, [as] with many religious matters, whatever was being done was done on the basis of faith at that time. But some explanations were given and had been given for a lot of years. At the very least, there should be no effort to perpetuate those efforts to explain why that doctrine existed. I think, to the extent that I know anything about it, as one of the newer and younger ones to come along, we simply do not know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006 | wasmormon.org
"It probably would have been advantageous to say nothing, to say we just don't know, and, [as] with many religious matters, whatever was being done was done on the basis of faith at that time. But some explanations were given and had been given for a lot of years. At the very least, there should be no effort to perpetuate those efforts to explain why that doctrine existed. I think, to the extent that I know anything about it, as one of the newer and younger ones to come along, we simply do not know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place." - PBS: The Mormons. Elder Jeffrey R Holland Interview, March 4, 2006
"From the mid-1800s, the Church did not ordain men of black African descent to the priesthood or allow black men or women to participate in temple endowment or sealing ordinances. Over the years, a variety of theories were advanced to justify the restriction. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has emphasized that those theories given in an attempt to explain the restrictions are “folklore” that must never be perpetuated: “However well-intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong... We simply do not know why that practice… was in place.”" - Commemorating the 1978 Revelation, Extending the Blessings of the Priesthood Ensign, June 2018 | wasmormon.org
"From the mid-1800s, the Church did not ordain men of black African descent to the priesthood or allow black men or women to participate in temple endowment or sealing ordinances. Over the years, a variety of theories were advanced to justify the restriction. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has emphasized that those theories given in an attempt to explain the restrictions are “folklore” that must never be perpetuated: “However well-intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong... We simply do not know why that practice… was in place.”" - Commemorating the 1978 Revelation, Extending the Blessings of the Priesthood Ensign, June 2018

1969 Official First Presidency Statement on the Doctrines of Banning Blacks from the Priesthood

Just as the statement from the First Presidency in 1949, there was another statement issued in 1969 regarding the stance of the church on denying the priesthood to any black member of the church. In 1949, the First Presidency consisted of George Albert Smith, J Reuben Clark & David O McKay. In 1969, the presidency …

Continue reading “1969 Official First Presidency Statement on the Doctrines of Banning Blacks from the Priesthood”

"The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God... Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man’s mortal existence, extending back to man’s pre-existent state." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro. | wasmormon.org
"The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God... Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man’s mortal existence, extending back to man’s pre-existent state." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro.
"We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel. We have no racially-segregated congregations. Were we the leaders of an enterprise created by ourselves and operated only according to our own earthly wisdom, it would be a simple thing to act according to popular will. But we believe that this work is directed by God and that the conferring of the priesthood must await His revelation." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro. | wasmormon.org
"We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel. We have no racially-segregated congregations. Were we the leaders of an enterprise created by ourselves and operated only according to our own earthly wisdom, it would be a simple thing to act according to popular will. But we believe that this work is directed by God and that the conferring of the priesthood must await His revelation." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro.
"We recognize that those who do not accept the principle of modern revelation may oppose our point of view. We repeat that such would not wish for membership in the Church, and therefore the question of priesthood should hold no interest for them. Without prejudice they should grant us the privilege afforded under the Constitution to exercise our chosen form of religion just as we must grant all others a similar privilege. They must recognize that the question of bestowing or withholding priesthood in the Church is a matter of religion and not a matter of Constitutional right." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro. | wasmormon.org
"We recognize that those who do not accept the principle of modern revelation may oppose our point of view. We repeat that such would not wish for membership in the Church, and therefore the question of priesthood should hold no interest for them. Without prejudice they should grant us the privilege afforded under the Constitution to exercise our chosen form of religion just as we must grant all others a similar privilege. They must recognize that the question of bestowing or withholding priesthood in the Church is a matter of religion and not a matter of Constitutional right." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro.
"In revelations received by the first prophet of the Church in this dispensation, Joseph Smith (1805-1844), the Lord made it clear that it is “not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.” These words were spoken prior to the Civil War." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro. | wasmormon.org
"In revelations received by the first prophet of the Church in this dispensation, Joseph Smith (1805-1844), the Lord made it clear that it is “not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.” These words were spoken prior to the Civil War." - Statement of the LDS First Presidency David O McKay, Hugh B Brown, and N Eldon Tanner, December 15, 1969, regarding the position of the church with regard to the Negro.