Monthly Archives: April 2023

"According to the most scientists, the mention of “horses” in the Americas during Book of Mormon times presents an anachronism–something that doesn’t fit the time frame for which it is claimed. How do we, as believers, reconcile this dilemma? ... A more likely candidate for the Nephite loan-shift “horse” would have been the Central American tapir" – FAIR, The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, Mormon Apologists | wasmormon.org
"According to the most scientists, the mention of “horses” in the Americas during Book of Mormon times presents an anachronism–something that doesn’t fit the time frame for which it is claimed. How do we, as believers, reconcile this dilemma? ... A more likely candidate for the Nephite loan-shift “horse” would have been the Central American tapir" – FAIR, The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, Mormon Apologists | wasmormon.org

Demonizing Doubt: Nelson’s Talk on Lazy Learners and Lax Disciples

In his lazy learners and lax disciples talk at the April 2021 General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, church President Russell M Nelson emphasized the importance of developing faith in Jesus Christ through intentional effort and action. Those who don’t succeed in this self-administered brainwash he refers to as “lazy …

Continue reading “Demonizing Doubt: Nelson’s Talk on Lazy Learners and Lax Disciples”

"You may leave this life at any moment: have this possibility in your mind in all that you do or say or think. Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm. If there were anything harmful in the rest of experience, they would have provided for that too, to make it in everyone's power to avoid falling into it; and if something cannot make a human being worse, how could it make his life a worse life?" – Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.11 (Hammond Translation) | wasmormon.org
"You may leave this life at any moment: have this possibility in your mind in all that you do or say or think. Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm. If there were anything harmful in the rest of experience, they would have provided for that too, to make it in everyone's power to avoid falling into it; and if something cannot make a human being worse, how could it make his life a worse life?" – Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.11 (Hammond Translation)
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." Often Misattributed to Marcus Aurelius - wasmormon.org
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." Often Misattributed to Marcus Aurelius
The premise of Pascal's Wager also assumes there is only one God. Which God are we meant to follow? What if a different God actually exists and the Christian God does not? We would end up putting all our time and effort into worshipping the "wrong God"? We would dedicate our entire life and still suffer in the next life because we chose poorly. Would picking the wrong religion upset the "right God" any more than being atheist or agnostic? | wasmormon.org
The premise of Pascal's Wager also assumes there is only one God. Which God are we meant to follow? What if a different God actually exists and the Christian God does not? We would end up putting all our time and effort into worshipping the "wrong God"? We would dedicate our entire life and still suffer in the next life because we chose poorly. Would picking the wrong religion upset the "right God" any more than being atheist or agnostic?
An argument against Pascal's Wager states that the idea of this wager already assumes God exists, and that he takes this bet too. The wager is already begging the question. There's no guarantee God or Heaven is what we expect. What if there is a God saying: “Hey, I don’t know how you got these crazy ideas. I never promised you any of this! I just want you to be good, kind people. Live your life. That’s why you are all there.” | wasmormon.org
An argument against Pascal's Wager states that the idea of this wager already assumes God exists, and that he takes this bet too. The wager is already begging the question. There's no guarantee God or Heaven is what we expect. What if there is a God saying: “Hey, I don’t know how you got these crazy ideas. I never promised you any of this! I just want you to be good, kind people. Live your life. That’s why you are all there.”
Blaise Pascal (a French Philosopher in the 1600s) suggests in Pascal's Wager that it is rational to believe in God, even if there is no conclusive evidence of His existence. The potential infinite reward outweighs the finite cost of missed opportunities, while the potential infinite loss from not believing in God outweighs the finite gain of living a free lifestyle. As humans, we gamble with our lives that God either exists or does not and he claims we're better off believing. | wasmormon.org
Blaise Pascal (a French Philosopher in the 1600s) suggests in Pascal's Wager that it is rational to believe in God, even if there is no conclusive evidence of His existence. The potential infinite reward outweighs the finite cost of missed opportunities, while the potential infinite loss from not believing in God outweighs the finite gain of living a free lifestyle. As humans, we gamble with our lives that God either exists or does not and he claims we're better off believing.
"I felt so sad, angry and disappointed at the same time. I cried for hours. Did I really just wasted 3 years of my life? Did I really believed in something, that is full of lies and intrigue? And yes, I did. And this understanding hurt me so deep. My Faith was a house of cards which floor by floor, slowly collapsed with every new TRUE thing I learned about the Church." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I felt so sad, angry and disappointed at the same time. I cried for hours. Did I really just wasted 3 years of my life? Did I really believed in something, that is full of lies and intrigue? And yes, I did. And this understanding hurt me so deep. My Faith was a house of cards which floor by floor, slowly collapsed with every new TRUE thing I learned about the Church." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I am from Germany. I started to hang around with the missionaries and talked with them for hours about the Church and its doctrine. I wanted to get baptized at 16 but I needed to ask my mother for her agreement. She said no – I got baptized 5 days after my 18th birthday. I never had doubts. I was a very firm member without looking left or right. I fully believed in everything the Church teaches. I joined Mormonism, ignoring that I am gay. I was a Mormon." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I am from Germany. I started to hang around with the missionaries and talked with them for hours about the Church and its doctrine. I wanted to get baptized at 16 but I needed to ask my mother for her agreement. She said no – I got baptized 5 days after my 18th birthday. I never had doubts. I was a very firm member without looking left or right. I fully believed in everything the Church teaches. I joined Mormonism, ignoring that I am gay. I was a Mormon." – Tim wasmormon.org
"But I met a boy. We had a wonderful time. I felt that this is what I always really wanted. This relationship between two boys, is nothing sinful or bad. But I was hiding it, because I was scared that the Members would start to hate me. That they would start trying to make me straight and that they would tell me that I am a dirty sinner. I came to the conclusion that denying the love of human beings is the worst thing someone could do." – Tim wasmormon.org
"But I met a boy. We had a wonderful time. I felt that this is what I always really wanted. This relationship between two boys, is nothing sinful or bad. But I was hiding it, because I was scared that the Members would start to hate me. That they would start trying to make me straight and that they would tell me that I am a dirty sinner. I came to the conclusion that denying the love of human beings is the worst thing someone could do." – Tim wasmormon.org
"In the time where did "sinful things" in the eyes of the Church, I got my calling in the Elder's Quorum. From that point I, knew that all this is nothing about inspiration, but just how you look on the outside. I wondered; Is it really that easy to deceive God, or is it just deceiving men? I lost my testimony of the Priesthood." – Tim wasmormon.org
"In the time where did "sinful things" in the eyes of the Church, I got my calling in the Elder's Quorum. From that point I, knew that all this is nothing about inspiration, but just how you look on the outside. I wondered; Is it really that easy to deceive God, or is it just deceiving men? I lost my testimony of the Priesthood." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I somehow always knew that I am gay. But because I got in touch with the Church I thought that this is a sin and that I need to repent. So I started to hide it and tried so ignore my feelings for other guys. Also in my time of investigating the Church for almost two years I got in touch with problematic topics and all the criticism against the Church. But I did exactly the same; I ignored it and often said that these things are all made up to harm the Church." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I somehow always knew that I am gay. But because I got in touch with the Church I thought that this is a sin and that I need to repent. So I started to hide it and tried so ignore my feelings for other guys. Also in my time of investigating the Church for almost two years I got in touch with problematic topics and all the criticism against the Church. But I did exactly the same; I ignored it and often said that these things are all made up to harm the Church." – Tim wasmormon.org
"All the members I talked to, didn't really care about my concerns and doubts. They simply said I should not read 'Anti-Mormon' literature and that I should ignore these things. But I cannot ignore facts and science. I cannot ignore how the Church treats members of the LGBTQ Community. And I can and will not ever ignore and be silent about the hundreds of lies, the leaders of the Church tell it's members." – Tim wasmormon.org
"All the members I talked to, didn't really care about my concerns and doubts. They simply said I should not read 'Anti-Mormon' literature and that I should ignore these things. But I cannot ignore facts and science. I cannot ignore how the Church treats members of the LGBTQ Community. And I can and will not ever ignore and be silent about the hundreds of lies, the leaders of the Church tell it's members." – Tim wasmormon.org
"I began my deep dive. The more I read or listened, the worse the church sounded. It soon became apparent to me that not only was the church not "true", it wasn't even remotely "good". It was founded by a power hungry sex predator with a long history of being a con-artist. It holds bigoted and racist views. It caters to right-wing violent extremists. It breeds sexism and misogyny. It protects and enables abusers and predators. It fights against equal rights for the LGBTQ community. It hoards money, exploits tax loopholes, and lies about how its finances are being spent. " - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"I began my deep dive. The more I read or listened, the worse the church sounded. It soon became apparent to me that not only was the church not "true", it wasn't even remotely "good". It was founded by a power hungry sex predator with a long history of being a con-artist. It holds bigoted and racist views. It caters to right-wing violent extremists. It breeds sexism and misogyny. It protects and enables abusers and predators. It fights against equal rights for the LGBTQ community. It hoards money, exploits tax loopholes, and lies about how its finances are being spent. " - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"I eventually got married in the temple, started a family and a career, and continued my activity in the church. I attended church, kept my temple recommend active, filled my callings, paid tithing, read scriptures, and prayed regularly. But I never got anything that confirmed the church to me. Didn't make sense to me. Eventually stuff like this led to me starting to doubt not just the church, but even the existence of God. But I soldiered on with the church, eventually deciding that it didn't really matter if the church was true, or even if God existed, I liked the church and believed it to be good." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"I eventually got married in the temple, started a family and a career, and continued my activity in the church. I attended church, kept my temple recommend active, filled my callings, paid tithing, read scriptures, and prayed regularly. But I never got anything that confirmed the church to me. Didn't make sense to me. Eventually stuff like this led to me starting to doubt not just the church, but even the existence of God. But I soldiered on with the church, eventually deciding that it didn't really matter if the church was true, or even if God existed, I liked the church and believed it to be good." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"I am an airline pilot who enjoys traveling the world. I was born in to the church, and raised in a small New England college town, where my sister and I were the only Mormons in our school. Although my parents were faithful, they were extremely progressive and nuanced Mormons. They raised me to be a free thinker, to follow my own path, be a hard worker, and to be loving and accepting. I so wanted the church to be true. I was a Mormon." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"I am an airline pilot who enjoys traveling the world. I was born in to the church, and raised in a small New England college town, where my sister and I were the only Mormons in our school. Although my parents were faithful, they were extremely progressive and nuanced Mormons. They raised me to be a free thinker, to follow my own path, be a hard worker, and to be loving and accepting. I so wanted the church to be true. I was a Mormon." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Then one Sunday, someone mentioned the Gospel Topics Essays. I had never heard of these. So after church, I went home and looked them up. These were essays written and published by the church (so they are official) that dealt with many of the messy things in church history. As I looked through the different topics, I realized that I had never even heard of most of the issues, and the ones I had heard of, I was told were anti-Mormon lies. But there they were, essentially an official admission by the church that my church leaders had lied to me. Wow, that hit hard." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Then one Sunday, someone mentioned the Gospel Topics Essays. I had never heard of these. So after church, I went home and looked them up. These were essays written and published by the church (so they are official) that dealt with many of the messy things in church history. As I looked through the different topics, I realized that I had never even heard of most of the issues, and the ones I had heard of, I was told were anti-Mormon lies. But there they were, essentially an official admission by the church that my church leaders had lied to me. Wow, that hit hard." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Then I read the essay about race and the priesthood. I knew this was a touchy and controversial topic, and one I had never fully come to grips with. But at face value, the essay seemed to offer some explanation. But then the very next day, while reading the scriptures with my kids... the essay claims the disavow any theories that dark skin was a curse from God, but right there was the teaching that dark skin was a curse from God. It was a blatant lie that the church didn't know where the idea came from, and it was a blatant lie the teaching was disavowed, because the seminary assignment had the kids reading it right there in scripture." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Then I read the essay about race and the priesthood. I knew this was a touchy and controversial topic, and one I had never fully come to grips with. But at face value, the essay seemed to offer some explanation. But then the very next day, while reading the scriptures with my kids... the essay claims the disavow any theories that dark skin was a curse from God, but right there was the teaching that dark skin was a curse from God. It was a blatant lie that the church didn't know where the idea came from, and it was a blatant lie the teaching was disavowed, because the seminary assignment had the kids reading it right there in scripture." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"My first real crisis with church stuff came when I attempted to serve a mission... I was never getting these hyper spiritual experiences when everyone else was claiming to get them. I was doing the right things, and I desperately wanted to get them, but never did. All of those things led to me basically having a nervous breakdown in the MTC. So after about five weeks, I went home." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"My first real crisis with church stuff came when I attempted to serve a mission... I was never getting these hyper spiritual experiences when everyone else was claiming to get them. I was doing the right things, and I desperately wanted to get them, but never did. All of those things led to me basically having a nervous breakdown in the MTC. So after about five weeks, I went home." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Prop 8 was hard for me to deal with. I could not understand why the church would care about the issue, particularly when most of the people affected were not even Mormons. That was a big weight on my "shelf". But eventually Prop 8 faded in to the background and I continued to live my life, trying to be a good Mormon and raise my kids to strong in the church because I still believed it to be "good", even if I was not sure if it was "true" or even if God existed." - Andrew | wasmormon.org
"Prop 8 was hard for me to deal with. I could not understand why the church would care about the issue, particularly when most of the people affected were not even Mormons. That was a big weight on my "shelf". But eventually Prop 8 faded in to the background and I continued to live my life, trying to be a good Mormon and raise my kids to strong in the church because I still believed it to be "good", even if I was not sure if it was "true" or even if God existed." - Andrew | wasmormon.org