"When Joseph Smith wrote about this in 1838, he talked about the Urim and Thummim spectacles that he found with the golden plates and he didn't write about the seer stone. That history became canonized as part of the Pearl of Great Price, and that is what Latter-day Saints are familiar with. We have much less familiarity with other sources that talk about a seer stone. I think that's part of it. It may be that we want things that are miraculous to be ancient, like the Urim and Thummim in the Bible, it may be that a seer stone is too much like an ordinary rock, it's something mundane, but the idea of Joseph Smith using a seer stone to translate: this is an idea that we can get used to." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department | wasmormon.org
"When Joseph Smith wrote about this in 1838, he talked about the Urim and Thummim spectacles that he found with the golden plates and he didn't write about the seer stone. That history became canonized as part of the Pearl of Great Price, and that is what Latter-day Saints are familiar with. We have much less familiarity with other sources that talk about a seer stone. I think that's part of it. It may be that we want things that are miraculous to be ancient, like the Urim and Thummim in the Bible, it may be that a seer stone is too much like an ordinary rock, it's something mundane, but the idea of Joseph Smith using a seer stone to translate: this is an idea that we can get used to." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department
"Yeah, that's an image [Joseph Smith looking at a stone in a hat] that we are unfamiliar with, but actually, it's not that strange. He's just trying to block out light – that's the point. So it's like, on a really sunny day, if you get a text message and you pull out your cell phone and you can't see it because of the sun, you make shade. You block out light so you can see what it says. That's the same kind of idea." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department | wasmormon.org
"Yeah, that's an image [Joseph Smith looking at a stone in a hat] that we are unfamiliar with, but actually, it's not that strange. He's just trying to block out light – that's the point. So it's like, on a really sunny day, if you get a text message and you pull out your cell phone and you can't see it because of the sun, you make shade. You block out light so you can see what it says. That's the same kind of idea." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department
"[The Urim and Thummim are] described as two clear stones in a rim like glasses, and the Book of Mormon says that these stones are what constitutes seers. Having and using these stones are what constitutes Seers. So, the Urim and Thummim actually is this special pair of seer stones and we have these descriptions of the Urim and Thummim connected to the breastplate, and that they're large, and that they don't fit on Joseph Smith's face. We even have accounts that he takes the lenses out of the rim and puts them in a hat, which is the way he used his seer stone. So, if he uses his own seer stone rather than the Urim and Thummim, he can put the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate away somewhere safe, and just use his seer stone–and that's more convenient." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department | wasmormon.org
"[The Urim and Thummim are] described as two clear stones in a rim like glasses, and the Book of Mormon says that these stones are what constitutes seers. Having and using these stones are what constitutes Seers. So, the Urim and Thummim actually is this special pair of seer stones and we have these descriptions of the Urim and Thummim connected to the breastplate, and that they're large, and that they don't fit on Joseph Smith's face. We even have accounts that he takes the lenses out of the rim and puts them in a hat, which is the way he used his seer stone. So, if he uses his own seer stone rather than the Urim and Thummim, he can put the Urim and Thummim and the breastplate away somewhere safe, and just use his seer stone–and that's more convenient." Mark Ashurst-McGee, a Senior Historian in the Church History Department
"It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes." Joseph Fielding Smith in Doctrines of Salvation | wasmormon.org
"It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes." Joseph Fielding Smith in Doctrines of Salvation | wasmormon.org
"While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose." Joseph Fielding Smith in Doctrines of Salvation | wasmormon.org
"While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose." Joseph Fielding Smith in Doctrines of Salvation | wasmormon.org
"The claim that we were the "only true church on earth" never set well with me growing up. As a young kid, my family used to take road trips across the country, stopping at national parks and historical landmarks along the way. One year, I remember stopping at the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Tennessee and experiencing a major moment of cognitive dissonance--on one hand, I abhorred racism and systems that excluded others based on their differences, and yet I realized that my own Church had deeply rooted exclusionary beliefs (i.e. "we're the one and only", etc)." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"The claim that we were the "only true church on earth" never set well with me growing up. As a young kid, my family used to take road trips across the country, stopping at national parks and historical landmarks along the way. One year, I remember stopping at the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Tennessee and experiencing a major moment of cognitive dissonance--on one hand, I abhorred racism and systems that excluded others based on their differences, and yet I realized that my own Church had deeply rooted exclusionary beliefs (i.e. "we're the one and only", etc)." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I had a close family member leave the Church due to historical concerns. History has always been something that I gravitated towards, and Church history was one of the only spaces I believed, at the time, I could truly feel the spirit. I was puzzled and confused why this family member would leave the Church over something I found so inspiring. It also troubled me to see how they were treated by those around me--again, because of exclusionary beliefs." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I had a close family member leave the Church due to historical concerns. History has always been something that I gravitated towards, and Church history was one of the only spaces I believed, at the time, I could truly feel the spirit. I was puzzled and confused why this family member would leave the Church over something I found so inspiring. It also troubled me to see how they were treated by those around me--again, because of exclusionary beliefs." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I was fortunate to have the sympathetic ear of my spouse, who chose to love me for me, and not merely for my Church membership. Coming from a space where I once felt I had all of the answers, it was difficult for me at first to get comfortable saying "I dont know." However, I began to realize that no one has the answers and the most important thing I can do is focus on living in the here and now. Little by little, I began creating my own meaning in this life." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I was fortunate to have the sympathetic ear of my spouse, who chose to love me for me, and not merely for my Church membership. Coming from a space where I once felt I had all of the answers, it was difficult for me at first to get comfortable saying "I dont know." However, I began to realize that no one has the answers and the most important thing I can do is focus on living in the here and now. Little by little, I began creating my own meaning in this life." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I thought I had known Church History, I studied it extensively in college and throughout my life. I had used Church approved sources and stayed away from "anti-Mormon material". But I began to realize there were certain areas of history that had been withheld from me--critical areas. The full extent of Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry rocked my testimony, the full context surrounding the Church's black priesthood ban was tough to swallow, and the more unfiltered history I researched in this position, the more I came to realize how "man-made" (not "God-made") the Church really was." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I thought I had known Church History, I studied it extensively in college and throughout my life. I had used Church approved sources and stayed away from "anti-Mormon material". But I began to realize there were certain areas of history that had been withheld from me--critical areas. The full extent of Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry rocked my testimony, the full context surrounding the Church's black priesthood ban was tough to swallow, and the more unfiltered history I researched in this position, the more I came to realize how "man-made" (not "God-made") the Church really was." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I'm sharing my story not because I'm still angry at the Church or because I want to tear people down. I'm sharing my story because I know there are thousands of people in my situation. People who feel hurt, unheard, or broken. I hope my story will be a small step in helping people gather up their broken pieces. I know that's what other people did for me when my shelf broke--I hope I can be there in a similar way for others." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I'm sharing my story not because I'm still angry at the Church or because I want to tear people down. I'm sharing my story because I know there are thousands of people in my situation. People who feel hurt, unheard, or broken. I hope my story will be a small step in helping people gather up their broken pieces. I know that's what other people did for me when my shelf broke--I hope I can be there in a similar way for others." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"About three years into my undergraduate studies in college, I decided to take an internship in the Church History Department with the Gospel Topics Essays to confront some of these historical issues head on. I thought (naively) that if I could understand where this family member was coming from, maybe I could bring bring them back into activity. However, it was during this internship that I learned the full, unfiltered history of the Church for the first time." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"About three years into my undergraduate studies in college, I decided to take an internship in the Church History Department with the Gospel Topics Essays to confront some of these historical issues head on. I thought (naively) that if I could understand where this family member was coming from, maybe I could bring bring them back into activity. However, it was during this internship that I learned the full, unfiltered history of the Church for the first time." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I come from a long line of mormon pioneer ancestry. I was born and raised in a small Southern Utah town, and grew up with the Church as a major part of my upbringing. Served a mission and was married in the Provo City Center Temple. I completed a Bachelor's degree in History at Utah Valley University. As part of my undergraduate training, I did an internship in the LDS Church History Department, which served as a catalyst to my faith crisis. My spouse and I are happily navigating a mixed-faith marriage. I was a mormon." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"I come from a long line of mormon pioneer ancestry. I was born and raised in a small Southern Utah town, and grew up with the Church as a major part of my upbringing. Served a mission and was married in the Provo City Center Temple. I completed a Bachelor's degree in History at Utah Valley University. As part of my undergraduate training, I did an internship in the LDS Church History Department, which served as a catalyst to my faith crisis. My spouse and I are happily navigating a mixed-faith marriage. I was a mormon." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"The non-whitewashed version of Church history that I learned as an intern revealed a historical record of LDS leaders creating and sustaining systems of oppression, followed by a concerted effort to distort or shelter this information from its membership. It was at this point I realized I could not continue to support a machine that had harmed so many people in the past, and continued to harm others today. I could not continue to hold up a man-made organization with deep flaws as God's "One True Church." My shelf broke." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"The non-whitewashed version of Church history that I learned as an intern revealed a historical record of LDS leaders creating and sustaining systems of oppression, followed by a concerted effort to distort or shelter this information from its membership. It was at this point I realized I could not continue to support a machine that had harmed so many people in the past, and continued to harm others today. I could not continue to hold up a man-made organization with deep flaws as God's "One True Church." My shelf broke." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"This cognitive dissonance would stick with me all the way into my mission, when I was tasked with convincing others that their religious or cultural beliefs were not "true". This never set right with me either, and I probably wasn't the best missionary because of it. I met so many good people from different walks of life and quickly realized, again, how harmful exclusionary beliefs can be." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"This cognitive dissonance would stick with me all the way into my mission, when I was tasked with convincing others that their religious or cultural beliefs were not "true". This never set right with me either, and I probably wasn't the best missionary because of it. I met so many good people from different walks of life and quickly realized, again, how harmful exclusionary beliefs can be." Read Brendan's full wasmormon.org profile at https://wasmormon.org/profile/blee34/
"In looking steadfastly to discern features, I could see none, but a small glimpse would appear in some other place. Below him stood Jesus Christ my Redeemer, in perfect shape like a man—His face was not ablaze, but had the countenance of fire, being bright and shining. His Father’s will appeared to be his! All was condescension, peace, and love!!" - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"In looking steadfastly to discern features, I could see none, but a small glimpse would appear in some other place. Below him stood Jesus Christ my Redeemer, in perfect shape like a man—His face was not ablaze, but had the countenance of fire, being bright and shining. His Father’s will appeared to be his! All was condescension, peace, and love!!" - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"At length, being in an ecstasy of joy, I turned to the other side of the bed, (whether in the body or out I cannot tell, God knoweth) there I saw two spirits, which I knew at the first sight. But if I had the tongue of an Angel I could not describe their glory, for they brought the joys of heaven with them. One was God, my Maker, almost in bodily shape like a man. His face was, as it were a flame of Fire, and his body, as it had been a Pillar and a Cloud." - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"At length, being in an ecstasy of joy, I turned to the other side of the bed, (whether in the body or out I cannot tell, God knoweth) there I saw two spirits, which I knew at the first sight. But if I had the tongue of an Angel I could not describe their glory, for they brought the joys of heaven with them. One was God, my Maker, almost in bodily shape like a man. His face was, as it were a flame of Fire, and his body, as it had been a Pillar and a Cloud." - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"At length, as I lay apparently upon the brink of eternal woe, seeing nothing but death before me, suddenly there came a sweet flow of the love of God to my soul, which gradually increased. At the same time, there appeared a small gleam of light in the room, above the brightness of the sun, then at his meridian, which grew brighter and brighter: As this light and love increased, my sins began to separate, and the Mountain removed towards the east." - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"At length, as I lay apparently upon the brink of eternal woe, seeing nothing but death before me, suddenly there came a sweet flow of the love of God to my soul, which gradually increased. At the same time, there appeared a small gleam of light in the room, above the brightness of the sun, then at his meridian, which grew brighter and brighter: As this light and love increased, my sins began to separate, and the Mountain removed towards the east." - Norris Stearns, Greenfield, Massachusetts, 1815
"I instantly seized hold of this with my heart... but never had the truth been in my mind that faith was a voluntary trust instead of an intellectual state... I knew that it was God's word, and God's voice, as it were, that spoke to me." Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821
"I instantly seized hold of this with my heart... but never had the truth been in my mind that faith was a voluntary trust instead of an intellectual state... I knew that it was God's word, and God's voice, as it were, that spoke to me." Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821
"It seemed to me as if that was binding upon my soul... a great sinking and discouragement came over me... just at that point this passage of Scripture seemed to drop into my mind with a flood of light... "Then shall ye seek me and find me"... Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821
"It seemed to me as if that was binding upon my soul... a great sinking and discouragement came over me... just at that point this passage of Scripture seemed to drop into my mind with a flood of light... "Then shall ye seek me and find me" Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821
"I turned and bent my course toward the woods, feeling that I must be alone, and away from all human eyes and ears, so that I could pour out my prayer to God... I attempted to pray I found that my heart would not pray... when I came to try, I was dumb... In attempting to pray I would hear a rustling in the leaves..." Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821
"I turned and bent my course toward the woods, feeling that I must be alone, and away from all human eyes and ears, so that I could pour out my prayer to God... I attempted to pray I found that my heart would not pray... when I came to try, I was dumb... In attempting to pray I would hear a rustling in the leaves..." Charles Grandison Finney, Upstate New York, 1821